Am I too big for my cat? :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

Am I too big for my cat?

Spray_in_the_face

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 22, 2009

Last visit: Nov 23, 2014

Posts: 99
Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 10:09 PM

I went out this afternoon and had near perfect conditions. The wind was coming from off the shore which creates only tiny waves.
During these puffs I could hike out on the trap and fly a hull no problem, but at times the puff would end quickly and leave me hanging out on the wire with no/little breeze. I feel as though I will pull the cat over onto myself if I'm not careful. I weigh 210 and I have a prindle 16. At times when the puff ended quickly I'd come down fast hit the water and peter pan around the stern. I'm not sure if this is due to the dicey winds I had or is that I need a bigger cat?
I've tried to trapeze on my H14, that was like trying to ride a otter.
rpiper138

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 17, 2006

Last visit: Apr 13, 2010

Posts: 194
Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 10:21 PM

Ideal race weight for a P16 is about 250 lbs.

In variable conditions it is pretty easy to get teabagged if you are a little slow on the wire. If you can keep the windward hull at a reasonable level without getting out on the trap, then you are probably better off doing so (especially if single handing).

Coming in and going out affects the tiller and is a little like putting the brakes on. If you can get out and stay out for a while then it is worth doing. You have to judge the cost of going in and out vs the additional speed potential of being on the wire.

You can be a little slower on a bigger cat in the same wind conditions, but there is always a set of conditions that cause this problem. The disadvantage of a bigger cat is that the conditions that cause the issue generally have a much greater effect and when they happen, you have to be even quicker.
Prindle75

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 21, 2006

Last visit: Jun 27, 2010

Posts: 34
Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 10:47 PM

I have not found weight to be an issue on my P16. Once the wind really begins to blow, I head out with a buddy (combined weight of 380 lbs) and push the boat as hard as we can.

The boat is set up for a single trap so we alternate spots. The added weight (he goes 220 and calls himself ballast) helps keep the boat under control and if (OK, when) we dump, it's a lot easier to right the boat with two.
pbegle

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 12, 2003

Last visit: Feb 19, 2021

Posts: 879
Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 11:02 PM

Minimum racing weight for P-16 is 260, about what Jeff & Dee Prindle weighed in 1972. At 210, there is no need to be on the wire in puffy conditions. Toughen up your belly and simply hike out, feet under strap. With a bigger boat you have a taller heavier mast to raise, a very important consideration. You have one of the best boats out there at your weight as long as you're primarily going to single hand. Enjoy it.
erice

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 19, 2008

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 671
Posted: Jul 25, 2009 - 08:54 AM

from what i hear you will tea-bag less on the prindle16 than a hobie16 but more than you would on a high volume hull like a nacra or a supercat

but gusty winds that come and go will have you trapping in and out like a monkey

price you pay for having such a powerful sail above you

presumably if you tried a skiff you'd be running around even more

cats are not a relaxing ride in those conditions, probably why cats just don't appeal to most recreational sailors

edited by: erice, Jul 25, 2009 - 07:54 AM
Wolfman

Rank: Chief

Registered: Jun 24, 2009

Last visit: Jun 15, 2023

Posts: 1555
Posted: Jul 26, 2009 - 10:16 PM

You could probably adjust the trap so you are riding a bit higher and maybe avoid getting dunked. I pretty much agree with everyone else that you probably don't wan't to be trapping in gusty conditions unless the base wind is strong engouht to keep you flying the hull at all times. Just lean back during the gusts and if you are in danger of getting pulled over start dumping sail. Not as fun as trapping but under those conditions it probably won`t be much fun anyway.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--
rpiper138

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 17, 2006

Last visit: Apr 13, 2010

Posts: 194
Posted: Jul 26, 2009 - 11:36 PM

I agree with Erice on the skiff thing. I crewed on an I14 back in my younger years and it is always a fight. In gusty conditions, you are in and out and sometimes diving to the low side if the skipper is a little slow. When the wind picks up you go from frustrated to terrified. Most of the time the only part of the hull touching the water is the last foot or two, and when that comes up, it goes way up as the top of the mast buries itself in front of the boat. Looks something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4eeMuoH7k

Great boat for the young and not so fat.

edited by: rpiper138, Jul 26, 2009 - 10:43 PM
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jul 27, 2009 - 10:04 AM

If your on the wire and hit a wind pause...i think you do have enough weight to pull the cat over you (windward) and many of us catsailors have capsized this way... even a 150 person can have this happen.

I work my legs pretty well in those conditions and when i hit a wind pause (usually the lea of an island or building) i squat my legs and bring my body to the hull... this helps with windward heel... but as mentioned above.. you may need to get off the wire completely.

i have an adjustable trap set up so i can raise and lower my weight.. this helps when i need more hiking action (weight over the side) or if a wave is coming at me.. but wont do much in puffs/pauses.

One thing that can really help.. is learn how to read the wind on the water.. i can see when the wind is going to stop.. or pick up by the ripple action.. the better you can read this.. the better you can predict what action is needed ahead of time...
Spray_in_the_face

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 22, 2009

Last visit: Nov 23, 2014

Posts: 99
Posted: Jul 27, 2009 - 09:51 PM

All very good points from respondents. I went out Saturday with much better results. Some of the things you guys have mentioned I have been doing, but didn't know if it was correct, like Squatting my legs and getting over top of the windward hull instead of levering off of it.

Trapping out can can feel awkward with the main sheet and hiking stick in hand, but it just takes some practice and it slowly comes together.

Thanks all,

Jim
smfinley

Rank: Mate

Registered: Apr 24, 2005

Last visit: Apr 18, 2023

Posts: 709
Posted: Jul 27, 2009 - 10:22 PM

Yes trapping out does take some practice especially if you are the skipper. Lots going on things to keep track of at once especially in gusty conditions. I would recommend learning in more steady wind conditions until you are more comfortable with the process, or at least have other boats around when you are learning.

I went back through a similar learning curve when I got my H18 with wings, hiking off the wings is a different feel then ofna boat without them. You really feel like you are dangling in no mans land.

But it is all great fun.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jul 28, 2009 - 09:11 AM

Dont forget your jib sheet, downhaul and travler too! Not to mention a beer, a magazine to read, your portable TV and the blender....

You NEED to be comfortable on the wire!

ps. I try to remember to place it near the hull so i can adjust it on the fly if needed
Quarath

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2008

Last visit: Jul 19, 2018

Posts: 986
Posted: Jul 28, 2009 - 06:28 PM

Your beer can hook to your wire with one of those neopreen coolers wiht a little clip on it.

Why do you need a blender if you have a beer?

You can mount the TV and pocket for Magazines(laminated of course) under the tramp so when your turtle (because you cleated your main to reach for your beer) you have something to do while you wait for someone to come help you right it.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--
Spray_in_the_face

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 22, 2009

Last visit: Nov 23, 2014

Posts: 99
Posted: Jul 28, 2009 - 09:15 PM

QuoteYour beer can hook to your wire with one of those neopreen coolers wiht a little clip on it.

No,no,no use a camelback. You can put several beers in it, and there is no chance of spilling it! Just keep the hose in your mouth
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 10:14 AM

QuarathYour beer can hook to your wire with one of those neopreen coolers wiht a little clip on it.

Brilliant! (i have gone through 5 or 6 designs... I currently use bicycle water holders)

QuarathWhy do you need a blender if you have a beer?

My beautiful, blond crew likes foo foo drinks. It is the captains RESPONSIBILITY to provide all your crews needs

Quarath
You can mount the TV and pocket for Magazines(laminated of course) under the tramp so when your turtle (because you cleated your main to reach for your beer) you have something to do while you wait for someone to come help you right it.

That is preposterous!!! If your beer is on the shroud.. you dont need to cleat your main!

edited by: andrewscott, Jul 29, 2009 - 10:15 AM
smfinley

Rank: Mate

Registered: Apr 24, 2005

Last visit: Apr 18, 2023

Posts: 709
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 11:36 AM

Use the blender before hitting the water and put the foo foo drinks in a camelback. Beer in a camelback is just asking for flat beer. Now do you want the drink holder connected to the shroud or the trapese line?

I am working on drink holders for my wings. They are at a good height, the only problem is keeping them in place when they are the leeward hull when flying a hull, which puts them in the water. I was hoping to have one mounted on each side instead having to move it with me.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 01:25 PM

smfinleyUse the blender before hitting the water and put the foo foo drinks in a camelback..

I hope you realize we are kidding!

smfinleydo you want the drink holder connected to the shroud or the trapese line?

your drink will not be onboard long if you use the trap line... even on the shroud.. it will flop around (as the lea shroud is always a little loose)

smfinleyI am working on drink holders for my wings. They are at a good height, the only problem is keeping them in place when they are the leeward

Do you sail with 2 drinks??? lol... regardless where you put it.. it will likely end up in the pond if left on the lea side... Whats wrong with holding a drink when tacking? haha.... yes,.. its a skill (that gets worse with time.. if you know what i mean)

The BEST drink holder ever (and as i said, i am on Mk 6 or 7) was the drink holder that came with my elyptical machine. At least part of it got used. The hoder got ripped off last month while flying the hull (not sure how) and i dont want to pay $250 for another one... haha... so i have switched to $10 bike drink holders, secured to the stay with 2 electrical ties.

edited by: andrewscott, Jul 29, 2009 - 01:27 PM
smfinley

Rank: Mate

Registered: Apr 24, 2005

Last visit: Apr 18, 2023

Posts: 709
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 01:34 PM

I presumed you were kidding about the blender and hopefully about beer in a camelback.

It would however be nice to have a holder that could clip on to the trap handle somewhere/somehow. So if you are out for an extended time you have your drink with you. Maybe I just need to find one that attaches to the front of my pfd, then it will be with me when sitting or on the wire.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--
Quarath

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2008

Last visit: Jul 19, 2018

Posts: 986
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 02:03 PM

Realistically, Put your beer in a small soft cooler strapped to your tramp. Drink it when the winds slow. If your trapped out flying a hull you should be buzzed enough by the adrenalin coursing through your system.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 02:03 PM

smfinley
It would however be nice to have a holder that could clip on to the trap handle somewhere/somehow

the handle is not a great place.. i keep spare ring dings and shackles on my crew trap handles (as i dont have crew often) and they freak out about those little things..a drink/holder would/could be a real issue if you need to get on or off the wire fast.

as mentioned above... i have tried many methods.... the one i use currently (bike drink holder zip tied to the shroud) is proving best...

edited by: andrewscott, Jul 29, 2009 - 02:06 PM
rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Jul 29, 2009 - 04:48 PM

too cool

--
FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
--