DaggerBoards
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- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: May 19, 2009 - 04:37 PM
Hello,i've only owned or been on Cats with asymmetric hulls and i own a SolCat18 that will be in the water soon.After watching alot of different You-Tube videos i noticed that when sailing with daggerboards there always being pulled up and pushed down alot.Is it just due to the water depth or does it help the boat function differntly.Would like to know before i go out.As i said this is my first Cat with boards so is it going to be a whole different experience.Thank you ahead of time.Brad -
- Rank: Mate
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Posted: May 19, 2009 - 04:44 PM
Boards are usually down going upwind and up going downwind. They are also raised when approaching the beach(for obvious reasons).
You also lift the boards when you are going upwind in very heavy air to let the boat slip and keep the windward hull lower. -
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Posted: May 19, 2009 - 06:40 PM
as above,
for best upwind performance you want both boards all the way down, unless it's blowing real hard then you want them up a bit so the boat can better slip sideways in a gust rather than heal over too far
for running across the wind, reaching, big boards being all the way down can induce more drag than is perfect, so some racers will pull them up a little
for downwind sailing you actually want to slip downwind so the boards should be up as much as possible but still give the boat enough board down to allow the boat to pivot around in gybes
so as you can see if there are 2 crew and you are racing 1-design then the more you play with your boards on each point of sail the more your advantage over the boats that don't
but if you are not racing, or have crew that want the hassle just having you boards down halfway will do
boats like the hobie17 and tornado have pivoting centerboards which aren't especially efficient and as far as i know aren't played with much if at all. they seem to sail ok
edited by: erice, May 19, 2009 - 05:44 PM -
- Rank: Master Chief
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Posted: May 20, 2009 - 09:42 AM
I have to disagree...the Tornado's centerboards are very efficiant... Heck it had been the Olympic catamaran for what 20 years (until this year when multi-hulls were removed from the ticket).
There is probably no cat that has had more development and testing and if they weren't efficient... they wouldn't be there.
Be careful at low tide... be safe and bring the boards up when in doubt. I used a sharpe and marked lines on my dagger boards so i could tell exactly how far they were below my hull.... i had peter-pan'd and capsized many times due to my dagger boards hitting bottom.... -
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Posted: May 20, 2009 - 09:55 AM
(i had peter-pan'd and capsized many times due to my dagger boards hitting bottom.... )
What does that mean apparently i havent done it if i don't know. -
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Posted: May 20, 2009 - 10:31 AM
when your cat comes to an abrupt stop.. and you are on the trap wire... you will FLY (like peter pan) to the front of the boat....
The last time it happend to me i was on a Mystere 6.0 doing about 25 knots and the spinnaker retervial line (that hangs under the trampoline) caught a crab trap float.... we went from 25 to 0 in about 2 seconds... we were double trapped on his wings... and both went for a quick flight around the front of the boat.. and watched it almost pitch ontop of us... but the crab trap held it down... it was very windy, hairy, wet and FUN (especially since it wasn't my boat)
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 06:28 AM
I've got a Hobie 17 and i've noticed that the daggerboards do not seem to drop all the way down, should they? or are they designed to be somewhat angled? (like about 45 degrees or so) -
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 08:20 AM
dagger boards... yuck-spit! Hassles and leak makers. One more thing to deal with. Shallow water plows.
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 08:40 AM
17 Hobies have a swing type board and there only supposed to go down 12" ~~ measure from the bottom of the hull to the tip of the board.... if you try to go anymore the spring will fall out.... pain in the ass puttin em back in.
I know, I have one.......
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~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 11:14 AM
could i mount a rope ad handle on the stern so that i wont peterpan when i come to an abrupt stop? maybe some shock cord too. i also kinda want either a motor or oars(and locks) mounted on the hulls. that way i wont ever have issues.
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 12:28 PM
I would suggest not... i wouldn't want:
a. more lines to get tangled in
b. to have something "STOP" me when i was peter-panning.. this would be a pretty strong jolt (try jumping out your car at 20mph... see how that goes)
I would suggest:
Dont come to abrupt stops! :)
really... if you are attentive with your boards (in shallows) its not a big deal. And if you are trucking and hit shallows.. you probably wont Peter-Pan with much force as the centerboar RIPPING through the wells/hulls should help to gradually slow you down....
Mount oars on your hulls? Oars?
we have someone LIVING on his h16 at the causeway we all sail on.. (moored just off land). he has cut his mast down just above the stays. this way he doesn't get overpowered.
in my opinion, this is a better option than turning your cat into a rowboat (yes i am being sarcastic).
PS most of us carry a collapsible paddle in case the wind stops. I have 2 (one for crew). it has come in handy a few times, but it is RARE the wind completely stops and if it does, its usually only for an hour or 2 (also usually around sunset).
The last time i had to paddle for more than a few minutes.. we were about 2 miles from beach.. and there were 4 of us. I came in second (using a paddle) behind a guy on my exact boat, who beat me home using a cooler lid to paddle (damn you zack)!!!
edited by: andrewscott, Jul 23, 2009 - 12:35 PM -
- Rank: Mate
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 12:29 PM
My righting lines attaches at the back of the H18 so you could use the righting line as a stabalizer, I have seen crew do it before on other boats. If you are the captain you really can't since your hands are full already. People also add a foot strap to help stablize yourself, just make sure it will break away before it breaks your foot.
Typically when you would peter pan there is enough force you aren't going to be able to stop yourself no mater what you do. The stabilizer rope or foot strap will help you keep your balance for minor issues or rough conditions. The impact of going from 15mph to zero is not something you can just brace yourself for. If you manage to hold on you will loose your footing and fall anyways.
The stablizing rope is nice when hiked out on wings especially, since the wing is fairly short so you don't have as far to catch your footing if you start sliding forward.
--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jul 23, 2009 - 06:05 PM
so are you saying high aspect daggerboards and plumb and reverse bows are all fashion?
would be interesting to see an a-cat with centerboards come in the top 100 hundred of the worlds
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Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 04:17 PM
I carry a full sized aluminum oar bungeed to my center crossmember. I find it helps in numerous ways when needed. It is long enough to aid in the final few feet of approaching a dock under sail to stop a full impact even at slow speed.
Plus, it has great leverage in both paddling and polling.
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- Rank: Mate
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Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 06:42 PM
I got caught on the lake one time when the wind just died. No paddle !!! dropped my sails~ rolled & tied em up, pulled my rudders up to a 45 degree angle... then back & forth, back & forth....I made it in, not fast but I made it
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~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
-- -
- Rank: Mate
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- Posts: 398
Posted: Jul 24, 2009 - 06:56 PM
''peter pan''~~~ ''spider on a wire'' what ever ya wanna call it, yer goin for a ride and its almost impossible to stop it, especially if yer not expecting it. Some friends of mine got seriously hurt from the abrupt stop, they ran aground on an 18H and the both daggers ripped the hulls apart beyond repair.. He had ins. on it and they gave him a check for the Hobie~~not enough of course, so he gotta 16.
Ya should 'try' to know where yer sailing at or how shallow it is ETC ETC ... and try to sail safe~~'GOOD LUCK'
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~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
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Posted: Jul 26, 2009 - 02:18 AM
cheers mate. i'll measure them. thanks.
I'm a relatively new owner to a Hobie17 so I might be asking more questions down the track.
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