Which singlehanded cat for lightwind sailing. :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Which singlehanded cat for lightwind sailing.

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janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 14, 2014 - 02:30 PM

nacra55In my opinion, the Nacra 5.8 is not a solo boat and not for you. Look at the P16.

If I would try to sail the Nacra 5.8 single handed in 8 to 15 knot winds, is that impossible with my 84 kg ?

Edited by janb on Apr 14, 2014 - 09:39 PM.
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 14, 2014 - 02:56 PM

I have been sitting now for 30 minuts and looking on the picture of the Nacra 5,8 on the beach that are for saile in Poland and then looking on the picture of the hulls only I don't think the hulls belongs to the Nacra 5.8 on the beach picture.....Or should I go to bed now and sleep

Where on the hull can I see if it's a 5.5 or a 5.8

http://www.dobrewiatry.pl/na-zaglach/katamaran-nacra-55-genaker-przczepa/

Edited by janb on Apr 14, 2014 - 10:00 PM.
jackb

Rank: Mate

Registered: Dec 01, 2011

Last visit: Nov 02, 2016

Posts: 165
Posted: Apr 14, 2014 - 08:19 PM

Hi Jan, jak leci,

janbIf I would try to sail the Nacra 5.8 single handed in 8 to 15 knot winds, is that impossible with my 84 kg ?

There is a couple issues with single handling a bigger cat, such as N5.8,

1. Ability to right the boat. It is not impossible with an aid of a righting pole or a bag (or both), but you will also need this skill, which you still need to acquire. As a beginner, you will not be able to right an N5.8, IMHO.

2. You may be Ok in a wind close to 8 knots (at 84 kg = 185lb), but close to 15 kts you will get overpowered. There are people at this forum who have been sailing cats for 10-20 years, and would tell you otherwise. Don't listen to those (awesome) sailors. They just can't remember how it is to be a beginner

Here is my list for you
1. Hobie 16 or P16. Both are rugged, simple to rig and sail, and should be available. Here in N. America H16 is by far the most popular cat.
2. Hobie 17 if you can find one. More complex than H16, but designed as single sailor cat.
3. N5.0 or N500 if you can afford it. I consider N500 an ideal recreations/performance cat
5. A-cat would be ideal as a performance single handler, but I would not recommend as a first cat. Just to expensive and delicate.
6. Lastly there are plastic Hobies, the Wave and Tatoo (or T2). The Wave is among the slowest of the cats, but it is very simple, quick to rig, and virtually indestructible. Great boat to learn cat sailing and then sell it and move on to "real" cats.

Good luck and keep us posted

Oh yeah, we like pictures...

Edited by jackb on Apr 14, 2014 - 09:29 PM.

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
--
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 14, 2014 - 11:06 PM

jackbHi Jan, jak leci,

janbIf I would try to sail the Nacra 5.8 single handed in 8 to 15 knot winds, is that impossible with my 84 kg ?

There is a couple issues with single handling a bigger cat, such as N5.8,

1. Ability to right the boat. It is not impossible with an aid of a righting pole or a bag (or both), but you will also need this skill, which you still need to acquire. As a beginner, you will not be able to right an N5.8, IMHO.

2. You may be Ok in a wind close to 8 knots (at 84 kg = 185lb), but close to 15 kts you will get overpowered. There are people at this forum who have been sailing cats for 10-20 years, and would tell you otherwise. Don't listen to those (awesome) sailors. They just can't remember how it is to be a beginner

Here is my list for you
1. Hobie 16 for P16. Both are rugged, simple to rig and sail, and should be available. Here in N. America H16 is by far the most popular cat.
2. Hobie 17 if you can find one. More complex than H16, but designed as single sailor cat.
3. N5.0 or N500 if you can afford it. I consider N500 an ideal recreations/performance cat
5. A-cat would be ideal as a performance single handler, but I would not recommend as a first cat. Just to expensive and delicate.
6. Lastly there are plastic Hobies, the Wave and Tatoo (or T2). The Wave is among the slowest of the cats, but it is very simple, quick to rig, and virtually indestructible. Great boat to learn cat sailing and then sell it and move on to "real" cats.

Good luck and keep us posted

Oh yeah, we like pictures...

Hello Jack
I'am aware of the problem about the ability to right the cat alone, but as you write a righting pole and bags are the solution for this problem. The problem with getting overpowered is also a consern that I have because it's 23 m2 and only me if the wind pick up.
About the Hobie cat I have read that they have very low-volume hulls means they are sinky and prone to nose diving, have you had the same experience?
Nacra cat and Prindle 16 is in my book as nice sailing cats for my lightwind lake, I have to find some infos on the Dart 18 maybe that's nice sailing cat too. But the A-cat is to expensive to start with and the plastic cat is not my thing, I think after one month it would bore me.

Ps. Jack you speak polish ?

Jan

Edited by janb on Apr 15, 2014 - 06:07 AM.
erice

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 19, 2008

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 671
Posted: Apr 15, 2014 - 03:02 AM

back by the right rear beam strap

there should be a hull number molded into the side of the hull

if it's an early 80's 5.8 it will start with TRRA.......

late 80's 5.8 will start with NACD........

if it's an early 80's 5.5 the hull number will start with TRR? (i don't know)

late 80's 5.8 the hull number will start with NACH........

the full cheap and dirty nacra number list below

Santa Ann, California factory - solid glass hulls with visible seam along top of hulls and stringers visible through inspection ports, hull number on rear of right hull

1975 TRRA02130675 alphacat 18' sail#213

1982 TRRA0123M82J 5.8
1983 TRRA021M83E
1983 TRRA0230M83D 5.8

TRRB - maybe 1 of the smaller alphacats or R36?

1976 TRRC00900276 5.2
1976 TRRC02870676 5.2
1980 TRRC1430M80C 5.2
1980 TRRC1549M806 5.2 matching sail number
1981 TRRC1906M81H 5.2 Florida $700
1982 TTRC2094M82A 5.2
1982 TRRC2158M82B 5.2 Japan
1982 TRRC2195M82C 5.2
1982 TRRC2307M82E 5.2
1982 TRRC2321M82F 5.2
1984 TRRC2370M84B 5.2
1984 TRRC2435M84A 5.2

TRRD?

1979 TRRE0034M79l 18sq 17'
1980 TRRE0073V80G 18sq 17' forestay chainplates outside of hull
1982 TRRE0174M82G 18sq

TRRF?
TRRG?
TRRH?

1983 TRRJ0071M83E 5.0

1985 TRRK0001M85A 18sq? 18'

1984 TRRL0195M84G 5.7
1984 TRRL0227M84H 5.7

Move to Woodland hill, California factory - thicker foam sandwich hulls, no seams on outside or internal stringers visible through inspection ports - hull number under right rear beam?

1987 NACA2030A787 5.0
1988 NACA2180G788 5.0

1987 NACB3026I687 5.2
1986 NACR3002J586 5.2 maybe that R should be B?
1990 NACB3080E090 5.2 Japan
1991 NACB3091K091 5.2 Japan

1986 NACC0351J586 5.7

1986 NACD0869K586 5.8
1987 NACD0979 A787 5.8
1989 NACD1186C989 5.8
1992 NACD1322F192 5.8

2008 NACE00051708 SL16

NACF

1988 NACG0032F888 6.0
1994 NACG0235E394 6.0

1992 NACH0323F192 5.5sl
1993 NACH0424B393 5.5uni
1999 NACH0608C999 5.5uni

2004 NACI03026304 500

2003 NACM039711032 Inter 18

2000 NACR0034E900 I-17
2001 NACR0041E900 I-17 carbon mast
2001 NACR009F001 F17 carbon mast
2002 NACR0131D02 F17 carbon mast
2002 NACR0132D202 F17 Inter 17 R
2007 NACR0143A204 F17 carbon mast
2005 NACR0152G405 Inter 17R

2001 NACT0292J001 Inter 20
2004 NACT0400C204 Inter20
2004 NACT0412I304 20
2005 NACT0392J105 20

2006 NACY0056F606 F18 Infusion
2007 NACY0077G607 F18 Infusion
2007 NACY0080G607 F18 Infusion

if it IS a 5.5 it SHOULD be as easy to solo as the 5.2 as the 5.5 was SUPPOSED to be the replacement for the 5.2 and the factory claimed it was lighter and slightly wider

some solo 5.2 videos

uni rigged

http://vimeo.com/5075989

but it can be a handful

http://vimeo.com/46683503

with jib

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j55lMDEBmP8
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 15, 2014 - 04:18 AM

I wrote the seller of the Nacra here in Poland yesterday and he wrote back today that the Nacra on the picture with 5.8 sail, is a Nacra 6.0 cat with a 5.8 sail. So it's NOT the origanal sail on the Nacra 6.0, but he has a Nacra 5.5 cat for sale I just don't know jet what he want for that.

Edited by janb on Apr 15, 2014 - 11:20 AM.
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 - 12:48 AM

Does the Nacra 5.5 have any weaknesses, that I should be aware of ?
sabbatical

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Sep 17, 2013

Last visit: May 03, 2014

Posts: 6
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 - 09:17 AM

A Nacra 5.0 or 500 is perfect for on up sailing

Regards, Mack
robpatt

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 06, 2010

Last visit: Aug 07, 2022

Posts: 278
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 - 09:33 AM

if you're in Europe you've got all kinds of awesome choices... but for lakes, and towing/fuel economy, and awesome boat design, style, speed, lightweight, modern-ness and simple design perfection... again, check out the A cat. If you're a bit big for that boat... get a modren 16 footer that you can drive hard even in big wind... nothing is more disappointing than having to depower when you really want to go faster. Get something you can max out!
catmodding

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 11, 2010

Last visit: Mar 19, 2018

Posts: 424
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 - 05:58 PM

nofearofflyingDarts are plentiful in Europe. Up to 4 months ago I would have ageed with prior response Prindle16 "hands down" But this February brought 1 iof my dart 18s to Florida and sailed it on a 685 acre lake and I came to appreciate lake sailing and the sudden gusts and shifts one has little or no time "to read". Dart 18s are very light less than 200lbs! They are designed for high wind but turned out to be superior to a hobie16 that already was on the lake I sailed. In truth the dart 18 does not come into its own until winds exceed 18 knots. But my dart outperformed all other admit tingly smaller cats on the lake. I follow dart 18 prices in Europe and believe that price wise coupeled with future probable use in larger venues (dart disassembles with ease)by an experienced board sailor expecting hi performance leaves little issue as to best choice, ps I still have my 5.7 nacre.ahobie 16 and Prindle16. Lost my 5.2 to "sandy" and love them all but dart18best choice in Northern Europe

You're so right about the Dart 18, I completely forgot them when we were
comparing catamarans mostly available in North America.

Jan, if you can get a Dart 18, go for it ! Largely available in the UK,
Holland and Germany, Poland ?? don't know.

Its a perfect single-hander in moderate conditions, with a roller-jib
you can sail it in more harsh conditions.
No daggerboards, brilliant rudder set-up and very lightweight!
Easy assembly and transportation. Good ones sell for € 1500 - € 2500
Seems the way to go.

Grtz, André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 19, 2014 - 02:05 PM

Don't forget I want to use the cat on lakes and when the wind i"s 8 to 13 knots wind speed, over 13 knots I go Windsurfing. Is The Dart 18 still better then the Nacra 5.5 ?
Dartman

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jul 27, 2008

Last visit: May 31, 2019

Posts: 51
Posted: Apr 20, 2014 - 09:08 AM

Get the Dart!!! Lightweight, easy to set up and sail, parts readily-available throughout Europe.
robpatt

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 06, 2010

Last visit: Aug 07, 2022

Posts: 278
Posted: Apr 21, 2014 - 09:30 AM

I soloed and then took my buddy and his wife and kids on a Dart 18 on Lake Garda last summer.... wind was WAY UP FAST... folks where kiteboarding all over the place like a pack of flies going around... and the Dart was absolutely amazing! Boat was good with weight, and without... if only the trap lines worked... rented it from a guy on the beach who rents windsurfers... west side of the lake up north.
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 21, 2014 - 10:52 AM

Where are the serialnumber on the hulls of a Dart 18, and what are the weak spots on a Dart 18?

Ps.
I went to Lake Berzdorf this easter weekend to windsurf, and sunday (yesterday) in 14 knots wind I raced a Topcat K2 with 3 men on it. They was not fast on Topcat, me on my 152 liter Fanatic Falcon with my 8,6m2 Point-7 sail AC-1 with 4 cambers was way faster in accelaration and at end speed. At no point they was even closed to me 100 to 200 meters behind me, from start to the end over 5 to 10 minuts race. I know my setup on windsurfing is topend, so it's not fair to compare it with a cat with 155 kg and tree men, but what would the result be after a race against a 130 kg Cat single-handed ?
klozhald

Rank: Chief

Registered: Apr 19, 2011

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 1445
Posted: Apr 21, 2014 - 10:53 AM

DartmanGet the Dart!!! Lightweight, easy to set up and sail, parts readily-available throughout Europe.

Or try contacting Dartman Direct Co. for parts! He has 5 Darts hidden in friends and relatives yards all over Fillmore CA!
And don't forget to ask about his custom dacron forestay windlass! The racer's choice.
:)

Edited by klozhald on Apr 21, 2014 - 10:57 AM.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
klozhald

Rank: Chief

Registered: Apr 19, 2011

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 1445
Posted: Apr 21, 2014 - 11:06 AM

On a more serious note, Dartman has sailed his Dart 18 single handed in 20+ knot winds 30 miles offshore in the Pacific. He has been doing this for three decades. Clearly the Dart 18 comes alive in higher winds, and yet is rigged to be able to be sailed in these winds single handed. Dartman has won the TriPoint Anacapa race three times running, twice in his Dart. It is fast, competitive and easily sailed.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
catmodding

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 11, 2010

Last visit: Mar 19, 2018

Posts: 424
Posted: Apr 21, 2014 - 08:31 PM

klozhald
DartmanGet the Dart!!! Lightweight, easy to set up and sail, parts readily-available throughout Europe.

Or try contacting Dartman Direct Co. for parts! He has 5 Darts hidden in friends and relatives yards all over Fillmore CA!
And don't forget to ask about his custom dacron forestay windlass! The racer's choice.
:)Edited by klozhald on Apr 21, 2014 - 10:57 AM.

Sorry Klozhald, Jan is in Europe, near the German/Polish border...

janbWhere are the serialnumber on the hulls of a Dart 18, and what are the weak spots on a Dart 18?

Ps.
I went to Lake Berzdorf this easter weekend to windsurf, and sunday (yesterday) in 14 knots wind I raced a Topcat K2 with 3 men on it. They was not fast on Topcat, me on my 152 liter Fanatic Falcon with my 8,6m2 Point-7 sail AC-1 with 4 cambers was way faster in accelaration and at end speed. At no point they was even closed to me 100 to 200 meters behind me, from start to the end over 5 to 10 minuts race. I know my setup on windsurfing is topend, so it's not fair to compare it with a cat with 155 kg and tree men, but what would the result be after a race against a 130 kg Cat single-handed ?

Jan, I'm gonna checkout where the serial numbers are placed.There's 4 at our club.
The weak spots on a Dart 18 are the skeggs, since it has no daggerboards, it is beached a lot more
with the usual wear and tear, and the trampoline is often worn. The design of the trampoline is the
only minor issue on a Dart 18.

Shame we live 850 Km apart.. would like a race against a surfboard in 10-15 knots of wind

Grtz, André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--
janb

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 13, 2014

Last visit: Apr 24, 2014

Posts: 20
Posted: Apr 24, 2014 - 02:03 AM

Found a cheap Topcat F2, is that a catamaran to consider as a lightwind cat? It's 115 kg, and 13.8 m2 sails
The price on the Topcat is 40% cheaper than a Nacra 5.5 and the Dart 18.

Edited by janb on Apr 24, 2014 - 09:05 AM.
erice

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Registered: Feb 19, 2008

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 671
Posted: Apr 24, 2014 - 02:49 AM

weight is low

so is sail area

sounds like a solo boat

good beginner boat

nacra 5.2 is 176kg with 20m2 of sail
jackb

Rank: Mate

Registered: Dec 01, 2011

Last visit: Nov 02, 2016

Posts: 165
Posted: Apr 24, 2014 - 06:32 PM

Hi Jan,

I've never been on a Topcat F2, but based on the specs, it is somewhere between a Hobie Wave and Nacra 460. It sound like a perfect a stepping stone boat, but based on the tone of your post, you will not be happy with this one -- long term.

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
--