• CatKat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Jun 19, 2010
  • Last visit: Jul 10, 2010
  • Posts: 11

  Posted: Jun 19, 2010 - 03:59 AM

  HELP!!!! I am (or was) the champion of our small club. Now my husband is beating me, and I am relegated to second place, usually. This can't go on.
  
  Here's what usually happens. On the upwind leg, we're usually neck and neck around the first mark. He does better on the stbd tack on his Hobie 16, and I do better on the port tack on my Dart 18 (we race the two classes together, as our fleet is only 12 boats)!
  
  On the run, he hauls a$$. I've tried running - the shortest route. I've tried a broad reach - the fastest and funnest route. I've tried kissing the wind (a mixture of both - speeding up on a reach, heading downwind to surf when I have some speed). It's not working.
  
  Please, have you got tips for me???
  
  Kate

  • 
  •  
• HULLFLYER
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 06, 2004
  • Last visit: Feb 24, 2024
  • Posts: 877

  Posted: Jun 19, 2010 - 07:13 AM

  It could be sail settings

  • 
  •  
• smfinley
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Apr 24, 2005
  • Last visit: Apr 18, 2023
  • Posts: 709

  Posted: Jun 19, 2010 - 08:29 AM

  There is a sweat spot running down wind where the boat will "hook up" and just takes off down wind. Very hard to find but I have been with some H16 A fleeters that can find it consistently.
  
  Typically you see people running about 45 degrees downwind, shortest distance (straight downwind) is not the fastest in a cat when going downwind.
  
  --
  Scott,
  ‘92 H18 w/SX wings
  ‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
  ‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
  --

  • 
  •  
• CatKat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Jun 19, 2010
  • Last visit: Jul 10, 2010
  • Posts: 11

  Posted: Jun 19, 2010 - 02:33 PM

  HULLFLYER

  It could be sail settings

  
  
  That had occurred to me, once or twice!!! Which is why I am appealing to this forum's wealth of knowledge to give me any tips about how I could set them in order to make me go faster

  • 
  •  
• smfinley
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Apr 24, 2005
  • Last visit: Apr 18, 2023
  • Posts: 709

  Posted: Jun 19, 2010 - 02:45 PM

  Have you read any of the catamaran sailing/racing books that have been published? Rick White wrote at least one and there are some others out there as well.
  
  --
  Scott,
  ‘92 H18 w/SX wings
  ‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
  ‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
  --

  • 
  •  
• pbegle
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Mar 12, 2003
  • Last visit: Feb 19, 2021
  • Posts: 879

  Posted: Jun 19, 2010 - 04:25 PM

  Do you have barber haulers on your jib so that you open up the slot a lot more on the downwind reach? Jib should be sheeted loosely. Also install a bridle fly on your bridle ($15)and sail with fly perpendicular to hulls. When boat seems to head away from the goal (mark), then jibe. This way you are following the shifts correctly--and always reach, never run. And get your weight way forward so that transoms are out of the water leaving no wake. Pete

  • 
  •  
• CatKat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Jun 19, 2010
  • Last visit: Jul 10, 2010
  • Posts: 11

  Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 04:05 AM

  pbegle

  Do you have barber haulers on your jib so that you open up the slot a lot more on the downwind reach? Jib should be sheeted loosely. Also install a bridle fly on your bridle ($15)and sail with fly perpendicular to hulls. Pete

  
  
  Thank you, Pete, this is more along the lines of what I was looking for.....
  
  1 - No, I don't have a barber hauler. What I tend to do in light breezes is unhook the jib sheet and tie on the loose end of my jib halyard (other end tied off, of course); since the weight of the clip interferes with jib's freedom to fly.
  
  2 - By fly sheet, do you mean a tell tale attached to the bridle? If so, then yes, I've been doing this. (Although I just use a strip of old spinaker, not a fancy $15 one!!)
  
  3 - I hadn't thought of the weight forward thing - will give it a go next week.
  
  Thankyou for these gems!!
  

  • 
  •  
• erice
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Feb 19, 2008
  • Last visit: Aug 26, 2023
  • Posts: 671

  Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 08:27 AM

  1st up i like see couples neck and neck
  
  on sail shape downwind you are looking for fat
  
  so loosen the downhaul on your main and if possible the jib halyard
  
  loosen the outhaul and mast rotation
  
  try to get forward and lift your sterns out
  
  and last but not least
  
  ask your husband for advice in how to beat him
  
  catamaran racing for the 90's

  • 
  •  
• Edchris177
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Nov 26, 2009
  • Last visit: Apr 10, 2024
  • Posts: 2524

  Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 11:29 AM

  When I read the first sentence I thought your club numbered 2, & you were just trying to beat hubby! Your lucky to have a decent fleet to sail with.
  I've always heard that the fastest sailors were racers, because they are never happy with the status quo. Q & A such as this, & books are about my only means to get faster. There are no other Nacras close to me, even though our lake is nearly 400 sq miles.
  I ran into a Hobie 16 yesterday, & pulled up beside him to ask a few questions,(being a newbie at the Cat thing). He said he'd been at it a few years, & gave me a few pointers on the run. He had both sails going, & was out on the wire in 20 clicks (12 mph). I was surprised at how easy I could keep up with only the main up. I had to loosen the sheet considerably for him to keep up, & with just one arm pull of the main sheet could pull away.
  He commented on what great boat I had,('84 Nacra 5.7)& wanted to sail together again. So we now have a fleet of 2! I know there is one other Hobie 16 around the corner that some young guns sail, so it will be fun to sail together. I'm sure I can learn a thing or two about going faster from these guys.
  
  
  
  
  edited by: Edchris177, Jun 20, 2010 - 10:30 AM
  
  --
  Hobie 18 Magnum
  Dart 15
  Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
  Nacra 5.7
  Nacra 5.0
  Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
  Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
  --

  • 
  •  
• CatKat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Jun 19, 2010
  • Last visit: Jul 10, 2010
  • Posts: 11

  Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 03:41 PM

  erice

  1st up i like see couples neck and neck
  
  on sail shape downwind you are looking for fat
  
  so loosen the downhaul on your main and if possible the jib halyard
  
  loosen the outhaul and mast rotation

  
  Thank you - I had forgotten about the downhaul on the main. Not possible to loosen jib halyard on Dart, as it's hooked on at top!
  
  

  erice

  ask your husband for advice in how to beat him
  

  Err.... Not gonna happen (the asking advice bit, that is. I will beat him again.
  
  
  
  
  edited by: CatKat, Jun 20, 2010 - 02:42 PM

  • 
  •  
• CatKat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Jun 19, 2010
  • Last visit: Jul 10, 2010
  • Posts: 11

  Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 03:45 PM

  Thank you to everyone who has shared their tips - it's not easy to get sailing books out here when there are only about 30 sailing boats in the country; and my internet searches haven't been very fruitful. The tips are much appreciated - I can't wait to leap back into the lead!!!
  
  If anyone knows of good sites with sail-trimming tips, they'd be appreciated as well!

  • 
  •  
• kingwilly
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Mar 14, 2009
  • Last visit: Feb 05, 2014
  • Posts: 53

  Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 08:24 PM

  Hi CatKat, I sail in Jakarta, and have a similar lack of sailing local knowledge. I read this thread with interest.

  • 
  •  
• erice
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Feb 19, 2008
  • Last visit: Aug 26, 2023
  • Posts: 671

  Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 07:18 AM

  CatKat

  it's not easy to get sailing books out here when there are only about 30 sailing boats in the country; and my internet searches haven't been very fruitful.

  
  
  same here in central japan
  
  so i bought a 2nd hand, hard back copy of rick white's "catamaran racing" from amazon for $5
  
  and liked it so much i splurged on a 2nd copy of his later book, "catamaran racing for the 90's"
  
  the older book has lots of photos but the newer book has more and updated information
  
  i recently bought a new uk book with LOTS of glorious color pics, but it hasn't taught my half as much as the older books
  
  1 good thing about the older books is that they are specifically written for the older beachcats
  
  http://www.amazon.com/Catamaran-Racing-90s-Rick-White/dp/1880871009
  
  for a dart you may want this book written by a dart world champ
  
  http://www.amazon.com/Catamaran-Racing-Kim-Furniss/dp/0906754909
  
  if you are too cheap for even a 2nd hand book you can download the "hobie university" pdf for free from many places
  
  at about 20 pages it is VERY basic but has a nice polar diagram
  

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 10:26 AM

  you can order rick whites books and videos at rick whites website catsailor.com
  
  increase your speed with apparent wind. this is typically achieved by turning slightly upwind.. and building speed and then turning downwind and utilizing that speed. continue this over the entire downwind leg (head up, grab a "bite of air" and then gently turn downwind and "USE" that wind.. .if done correctly, you can gain speed and even go faster than the wind (usually on more of a beam reach than dead down wind). another trick that works on darts .. if you lose your apparent wind... you can gently sheet out the main and the jib and gently (slowly) sheet them back into position.
  
  If you don't have tell-tales and leach tails.. get em. sail by them. if your leach tails aren't flying backwards, your over sheeted... (and losing efficiency)
  
  also if you feel brave... youshould be doing the wild thing downwind (this is sitting on the low/lee hull). this makes steering very tricky (many use their feet on the rear crossbar) but the goal is to get the windward hull out of the water, reducing drag... but be careful... :)
  
  as mentioned above weight placement is critical.. you should be hugging your mast (from the low side) but if your not comfortable doing the wild thing... hug the mast and keep your lower body on the low side...
  
  lastly, its pretty hard to compare a H16 and dart18. very different boats that will have different "sweet spots" (the h16 should kill you downwind and you should be able to beat up on it up wind (in med-heavy air). in light air, the dart will suffer..
  
  

  • 
  •  
• DamonLinkous
  
  

  • Rank: Administrator
  • Registered: Jul 19, 2001
  • Last visit: May 18, 2024
  • Posts: 3435

  Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 01:48 PM

  CatKat

  He does better on the stbd tack on his Hobie 16, and I do better on the port tack on my Dart 18

  
  
  Kate, are you and hubby both sailing solo? Are you sailing the Dart with two sails or as a Uni?
  
  First the Hobie 16 does have a faster rating that the Dart 18 and quite a bit faster than the Dart 18 Uni.
  
  rating d-pn/0-3mph/4-12mph/13-17mph
  Hobie 16 -- 76/81.5/78.7/74.1
  Dart 18 Sloop 2-up -- 76.3/81.3/79.7/76.6
  Dart 18 Uni 1-up -- 78.7/84/82.2/78.6
  
  So if you both sail your boats to their potential the Hobie 16 should always beat you across the line or around the course.
  
  In the real world there are a million variables. I can tell you that a very well sailed Hobie 16 can be nearly unbeatable downwind in light air because they can do some crazy shenanigans with weight distribution that enables the boat to sails with hardly any hull in the water (due to the banana shaped hulls) and angle nearly dead down wind, which is hard to make up for until the wind picks up enough to make your jibing angles pay off.
  
  DO NOT try to follow a H16 straight downwind on a boat that needs to jibe.
  
  --
  Damon Linkous
  1992 Hobie 18
  Memphis, TN
  
  How To Create Your Signature
  
  How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
  
  How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
  --

  • 
  •  
• DamonLinkous
  
  

  • Rank: Administrator
  • Registered: Jul 19, 2001
  • Last visit: May 18, 2024
  • Posts: 3435

  Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 02:30 PM

  erice = Japan
  kingwilly = Jakarta
  CatKat = Kuwait
  
  Quite an international thread we have going! I'm loving it, beachcats worldwide. Every month in the site stats I see that over 130 countries visit TheBeachcats.com and I always wonder what their local sailing is like.
  
  So please could all of you add an album to the "Beachcats Groups" album with pictures of your local sailing area?http://www.thebeachcats.…pictures&g2_itemId=12376
  
  Thanks,
  
  --
  Damon Linkous
  1992 Hobie 18
  Memphis, TN
  
  How To Create Your Signature
  
  How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
  
  How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
  --

  • 
  •  
• Edchris177
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Nov 26, 2009
  • Last visit: Apr 10, 2024
  • Posts: 2524

  Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 07:10 PM

  Will get some pictures now that I'm actually sailing.
  And don't forget there are a few of us Canada guys who sail during the soft water season! You have not annexed us, yet Remember we sent those Yankees packing in 1812.
  
  --
  Hobie 18 Magnum
  Dart 15
  Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
  Nacra 5.7
  Nacra 5.0
  Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
  Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
  --

  • 
  •  
• Wolfman
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Jun 24, 2009
  • Last visit: Jun 15, 2023
  • Posts: 1555

  Posted: Jun 22, 2010 - 01:04 AM

  Yep, I've started uploading also. Although my pics in Canada look suspicously similar to the ones from the Northern States... You can't really tell how far from civilization we are from the pics. :) The Japan cat sailing videos on youtube are pretty awesome! I would love to see some pics of sailing in Kuwait (probably similar to California in a lot of ways)!!
  
  Unfortunately at some point since 1812 and burning the original Whitehouse we became domesticated and named our dollar the Looney. Not sure how anyone can take us seriously now.
  
  --
  Dave Bonin
  1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
  1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
  Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
  --

  • 
  •  
• coastrat
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Jul 16, 2009
  • Last visit: Oct 28, 2014
  • Posts: 1271

  Posted: Jun 22, 2010 - 08:24 AM

  can't say we were much help to those yankees in 1812, but in 1814, ole andy jackson and his ragtag group of pirates, indians, and rednecks stomped much british azz over in chalmette, louisiana...guess bp is paying us back, with interest!
  
  --
  Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
  bill harris
  hattiesburg, mississippi
  prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
  --

  • 
  •  
• Edchris177
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Nov 26, 2009
  • Last visit: Apr 10, 2024
  • Posts: 2524

  Posted: Jun 22, 2010 - 09:25 AM

  We really shouldn't have burned down their Whitehouse, though I see they've rebuilt it. I went to D.C., it looks very nice. Now, if only we could get them to brew real beer. With all the German,Austrian,Dutch & especially Irish heritage, I don't know how they got saddled with the likes of Bud, Coors & most of the other dishwater that sells as beer.
  You're right about those Brits Coastrat, they are a pompous bunch. Even us Irish dislike them, & we like everybody, especially if their Dads own pubs! About the only positive is that their winning the war made North America use the English language. It is a bitch to learn as a foreign tongue, as most of the rest of the world now knows.
  
  --
  Hobie 18 Magnum
  Dart 15
  Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
  Nacra 5.7
  Nacra 5.0
  Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
  Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
  --

  • 
  •  
•  
•  

Users on-line

• dssaak,
• jack108136

This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.