Greetings,
I'm looking at buying my first cat, have a used Hobie16 in mind but wanted your take on options. I'm 220lb. will sail primarily on small lakes some with shallow areas, will single-hand mostly but occasional crew. Want to get proficient at flying hull and racing. Thanks
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eddiecat
Nacra 5.0 (destroyed in storm)
Hobie 16 (restored)
Nacra 5.5- amalgam "Franken Cat"
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Hobie 16 vs. 18 or NACRA
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Posted: Apr 14, 2009 - 03:44 PM
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Posted: Apr 14, 2009 - 04:02 PM
I started on a Hobie 16 and I feel like it was a pretty good cat to start on. The rigging is straight forward and it's a pretty durable cat. It's also a good boat for shallow water, since it has pop-up rudders, and it doesn't have dagger-boards.
Another good boat might be the Nacra 5.0 (which is also boardless). It has a little more volume in the hulls, so you won't have to worry as much about pitch-poling, as compared to the Hobie, which is nice when you're learning. To my knowledge, the 5.0 doesn't have kick-up rudders like the 16 though, which is a minus. However, in my opinion, you won't feel like you need to upgrade as soon with the Nacra, which is a plus.
These are just two good cats, and there are lots of other good options. Let us know what you get! -
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Posted: Apr 14, 2009 - 04:20 PM
Here is the parts catalog for the older nacras. The 5.0 has the pivmatic kick-up rudders http://nacra.us/nacra/Nacra%20Parts%20(older).pdf
edited by: skarr1, Apr 14, 2009 - 03:22 PM -
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Posted: Apr 14, 2009 - 05:24 PM
ALL NACRAS HAVE KICK UP RUDDERS -
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Posted: Apr 15, 2009 - 01:17 AM
Asymetrical hulls (no daggers), good size tramp area,
straight forward rigging, easy to single hand but will
fly a hull with two trapped out, mast can be stepped by
one person, deep hulls for us manly sized men, can take
you from beginner to kickin but on the race courses....
Theres only one option......
Prindle...16 or 18
Good luck in finding one though...us Prindle fan-boys like
to hold on to our treasures ;)
edited by: ButchG, Apr 15, 2009 - 12:19 AM -
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Posted: Apr 15, 2009 - 04:19 AM
On mine, the rudder pull down lines lock into little cammatic cleats on the tiller arms. Is that not normal? -
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Posted: Apr 15, 2009 - 06:54 AM
Yes that is normal, when you hit the beach the force on the leading edge of the rudder will pull on the pull down line and release the cleat on the rudder arm. Try pulling it up a few times before each sail to make sure it is working properly. I spray dry silicone on mine every now and then before I go sailing. -
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Posted: Apr 15, 2009 - 11:34 AM
At your size you will be happier with a Prindle 16 or Nacra 5.0. More hull volume and less tendency to pitch pole. I personally prefer the Nacra kick up rudder design to the hobie. Stay away from anything with dagger boards if you are in shallow waters.
That said the 16 is a fine boat and very durable. -
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Posted: Apr 15, 2009 - 12:30 PM
Thanks for the info hullflyer. That's good to know!
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Posted: Apr 16, 2009 - 12:38 AM
At 220 lbs you are a pretty big guy for a Hobie 16.
There are really two different lines of Nacra. The recreational of "fun" boats include any boat in the line that is boardless. Some of the older boats that have boards have also fallen into the recreational category now new boats have taken over the performance side of things. The performance boats pretty much includes anything with boards from the 5.2 up.
The Nacra recreational boats would be in the same category as the H16 and H18. The performance line from Nacra would compare to the Hobie FXOne and Hobie Tiger.
The big advantage of the boats with boards it that they tack a little better, but once you get into the performance line of boats, there are a lot more controls to play around with and they tend to carry more sail. It takes a while to figure out how to reduce the power in the rig when the wind is blowing 20 knots (my 5.5 Uni is overpowered in 15 knots).
I tend to agree with the argument for the Prindle (18-2). It is a very nice boat and pretty fast. It is also built by Performance Catamarans who also manufacture Nacra. If you do buy a Nacra, do not buy anything that has a NA in the name (especially 6.0 NA) unless you plan to always sail with a crew that is around your size. -
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Posted: Apr 16, 2009 - 12:28 PM
[quote=rpiper138]At 220 lbs you are a pretty big guy for a Hobie 16.
I've heard that RE weight-I'm trying to lose 10lbs!
A buddy first got me into sailing, he races which I want to get into, but thought the hobie 16 would be a good place to start, esp since this boat and trailer are inexpensive first rig.Then move to performance boat w/daggerboards etc.
However, more folks I talk to, they also recc Prindle or Nacra. Hmmm maybe both and start my backyard fleet...
--
eddiecat
Nacra 5.0 (destroyed in storm)
Hobie 16 (restored)
Nacra 5.5- amalgam "Franken Cat"
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Posted: Apr 16, 2009 - 02:53 PM
Rich .. Where were you when I bought my N5.8NA?
I completely agree. It's a snarling beast over 15knots. Its also a sweet ride below that however. No really effective way to dump power. -
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Posted: Apr 16, 2009 - 03:52 PM
Ideal crew weight for a H16 is somewhere around 300 lbs, so any crew would have to be pretty light. You might find that a higher volume boat won't be quite as sensitive to where you are on the boat (balance).
Larry: The 5.8 is a great machine. I think that most Nacra race boats are designed to be overpowered at 15 knots, but the North America version even more so. The 6.0NA is overpowered before you get the mast stepped.
The 5.5U tuning guide says to depower the rig by:
- increasing downhaul
- decreasing mast rotation
- dropping the traveller as required
Anything over 15 and I am still fighting to keep her upright. -
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Posted: Apr 16, 2009 - 05:15 PM
Yep..Do all those. Thinking about adding a furling rig as well. Piling on the bodies is the only other answer. She scared the you know what out of me on several occasions early on and yet my kid and I rode out a nasty gale last summer during a race and she was rock steady in irons. (we however had no business being out there - we were severely under weight) Its all about understanding parameters. I have thought about going to an H16 but can't bring myself to do it now that I've had four seasons experience with this beast.
There are also some days where we just hang on the beach, crew or do something else.
I have learned that I'm not 20 anymore and there are plenty of fine days during the season. No need to push it. -
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Posted: Apr 16, 2009 - 11:25 PM
I hear you Larry.
Unfortunately I don't have the possibility of going to a furling jib due to the fact that I don't have a jib to begin with. I only carry 172 square feet of sail, but the boat and I combined are only 520 lbs (340 + 180). Once the wind get up, it usually gets wild.
I don't see how you could consider a H16 after the 5.8. If you must downsize there are a lot of great boats that have similar performance potential to the 5.8, but with a little less power. The H16 would seem pretty slow to you now. It has a D-PN of 76, compared to 66.5 for your 5.8. So your 5.8 owes an H16 57 seconds a mile in time on distance racing. That is pretty substantial.
See the link for portmouth ratings:
http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables08/tables08mh.asp
Where do you sail? -
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Posted: Apr 17, 2009 - 10:29 AM
We sail out of Glencoe Il near Chicago. We have no plans to downsize at present. I agree there are better choices than the H16. (I may someday decide I hate daggerboards but I'm not quite there yet) -
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Posted: Apr 17, 2009 - 05:30 PM
Larry: I used to sail out of Benton Harbor Michigan. It is pretty much straight across the lake from Glencoe. Daggerboards are expensive. I broke one last year and paid $300 for a replacement. Ended up buying 2 so I have a spare.
Eddiecat: There are a couple of Prindle 18-2s in the classified section that might interest you. If you are looking for a solid boat that is pretty easy to sail and has no boards, the Dart 18 can usually be found for a reasonable price and performs quite well (about the same as a Hobie 16). The only problem with them might be finding parts.
edited by: rpiper138, Apr 17, 2009 - 04:32 PM
