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A-cat question for Mattson or others  Bottom

  • I’m impressed by the way the A-cat shown in this nice video posted on youtube by Mattson sails:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs8L8MQDncE

    I’m wondering if Mattson (or anyone else) knows what kind it is, and the length.

    The water appears to be pretty moderate in the video. However, Mattson has another video or two that I think show the same boat out in some larger swells and chop in the open ocean. From what I can tell, it seems to be handling it pretty well, hanging right with the P19s (or better?). Better than I would’ve expected for a boat with such low-profile hulls.

    I don’t know much about A-cats, but I had the idea boats with these lower profile hulls might be better for less rough waters – but what do I know? I’m wondering if Mattson or anybody else has any comment about how boats like this do in the bigger conditions, compared for example to something like a P-19.

    Thanks.



    Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 03, 2020 - 03:20 AM.

    --
    1998 P18.2 "Powda"
    Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
    --
  • Looks like an A2 with straight boards. One of the least forgiving A's for downwind sailing in waves. It's an early surface piercing bow design that does not have a lot of volume forward. It cuts through the waves great, but will also pitchpole in a heartbeat when turning down.
  • CatFan57The water appears to be pretty moderate in the video. However, Mattson has another video or two that I think show the same boat out in some larger swells and chop in the open ocean. From what I can tell, it seems to be handling it pretty well, hanging right with the P19s (or better?). Better than I would’ve expected for a boat with such low-profile hulls.

    This is taken off Ventura, CA, in the Santa Barbara Channel. I've seen it as smooth as glass, and raced in 5 foot swells. It is a great place to sail.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    _/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • Thanks a lot for the reply, Mike, that's the kind of info I was hoping to get. I guess the search for the perfect do it all boat that can be easily single-handed in the ocean, goes on.



    Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 03, 2020 - 08:46 PM.

    --
    1998 P18.2 "Powda"
    Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
    --
  • klozhald
    CatFan57The water appears to be pretty moderate in the video. However, Mattson has another video or two that I think show the same boat out in some larger swells and chop in the open ocean. From what I can tell, it seems to be handling it pretty well, hanging right with the P19s (or better?). Better than I would’ve expected for a boat with such low-profile hulls.

    This is taken off Ventura, CA, in the Santa Barbara Channel. I've seen it as smooth as glass, and raced in 5 foot swells. It is a great place to sail.


    Thanks klozhald, I had the great privilege of sailing there in the summer of 2018 thanks to the help of JohnES and this forum. I reached out to John out of the blue through the forum because I was going to be in the area and could tell he sailed out of Ventura. Wanted to see if I could wrangle a ride on a cat. John didn't know me from Adam, but met me at the harbor, loaned me a pfd and harness, and set me up with Lance, who took me all the way to the back side of Anacapa on his P19.

    What a heavenly trip it was. Clear waters, steady breeze, destination an undeveloped rocky island surrounded by kelp beds, birds and wildlife 22 miles offshore. Plus surfing beautiful rollers for 20+ miles on the way back heading for the mountains of the coast - I loved everything about it and will be going back.

    Surfing those easy rollers for that distance, with a strong steady breeze and the hulls gently slicing up and down through the waters, almost puts you into some kind of hypnotic trance or meditation. I urge anyone who has a chance to enter one of the races out of Ventura to go.

    Thanks again to JohnES and this forum for making that happen. Some sailing community. (Guess I posted this about 1.5 years too late, lol.)



    Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 03, 2020 - 08:58 PM.

    --
    1998 P18.2 "Powda"
    Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
    --
  • CatFan57
    klozhald
    CatFan57The water appears to be pretty moderate in the video. However, Mattson has another video or two that I think show the same boat out in some larger swells and chop in the open ocean. From what I can tell, it seems to be handling it pretty well, hanging right with the P19s (or better?). Better than I would’ve expected for a boat with such low-profile hulls.

    This is taken off Ventura, CA, in the Santa Barbara Channel. I've seen it as smooth as glass, and raced in 5 foot swells. It is a great place to sail.


    Thanks klozhald, I had the great privilege of sailing there in the summer of 2018 thanks to the help of JohnES and this forum. I reached out to John out of the blue through the forum because I was going to be in the area and could tell he sailed out of Ventura. Wanted to see if I could wrangle a ride on a cat. John didn't know me from Adam, but met me at the harbor, loaned me a pfd and harness, and set me up with Lance, who took me all the way to the back side of Anacapa on his P19.

    What a heavenly trip it was. Clear waters, steady breeze, destination an undeveloped rocky island surrounded by kelp beds, birds and wildlife 22 miles offshore. Plus surfing beautiful rollers for 20+ miles on the way back heading for the mountains of the coast - I loved everything about it and will be going back.

    Surfing those easy rollers for that distance, with a strong steady breeze and the hulls gently slicing up and down through the waters, almost puts you into some kind of hypnotic trance or meditation. I urge anyone who has a chance to enter one of the races out of Ventura to go.

    Thanks again to JohnES and this forum for making that happen. Some sailing community. (Guess I posted this about 1.5 years too late, lol.)Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 03, 2020 - 08:58 PM.


    That's my friend Hall who also sails a P19. Just spoke with him and he believes it is an A2, but thinks it could be an A3. He said there was a change in the main beam moved either fore or aft, but does not remember. He's never pitchpoled the boat but has come close. The boat is 18 ft in length.

    This really is a great area to sail, the only drawback being the relatively cold water relative to areas like FL. I have a new guy in my crew rotation that really wanted to do a camping trip to Santa Cruz Island. I spent a good part of the beginning of the year outfitting the P19 for that, but then COVID hit, and I'm not going to spend 4 days on a small square of trampoline with someone outside of my household.

    Maybe this summer, post vaccine. Those trips can be very demanding, though. And at 62, I am right on the edge of "getting too old for this sh*t".

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • Thanks a lot for the reply, Bill Mattson, and thanks for discussing it with your friend, the boat owner. As I said, I saw you sailing with him in one of your other videos, where it looked like you were both going through some decent swells and he seemed to be doing pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LqorCGdpYk. Looked like he was able to make that thing sail pretty close to the wind too.

    I've enjoyed your videos. Btw, any idea where I might look for a carbon fiber pole to make a righting pole like you show affixed to your boom? I had a crappy experience capsizing solo and not being able to right my P18.2 by myself, partially due to some other complications that arose, so I'm looking to make something more sure-fire.

    I also noticed you made the square end piece with just some kind of flat plate, rather than a big plywood box like some others do. Looks like it would save weight. I did watch the videos of the righting pole inventor and some others who made one.

    Hope you're able to make that trip if you're up for it. Looking to get my boat out there at some point too.



    Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 05, 2020 - 06:07 PM.

    --
    1998 P18.2 "Powda"
    Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
    --
  • CatFan57Thanks a lot for the reply, Bill Mattson, and thanks for discussing it with your friend, the boat owner. As I said, I saw you sailing with him in one of your other videos, where it looked like you were both going through some decent swells and he seemed to be doing pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LqorCGdpYk. Looked like he was able to make that thing sail pretty close to the wind too.

    I've enjoyed your videos. Btw, any idea where I might look for a carbon fiber pole to make a righting pole like you show affixed to your boom? I had a crappy experience capsizing solo and not being able to right my P18.2 by myself, partially due to some other complications that arose, so I'm looking to make something more sure-fire.

    I also noticed you made the square end piece with just some kind of flat plate, rather than a big plywood box like some others do. Looks like it would save weight. I did watch the videos of the righting pole inventor and some others who made one.

    Hope you're able to make that trip if you're up for it. Looking to get my boat out there at some point too.Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 05, 2020 - 06:07 PM.


    The A-Cat in that video is my other friend Bob. Similar boat.

    The righting pole is a Solo~Right design, and I sourced the pole from McMaster Carr for around $250, if memory serves. Way cheaper options out there including sections of used windsurfer masts. I added the section of teflon cutting board to make the pole double as a paddle. I have soloed the boat twice with this device with no issues.

    The inventor demonstrates how it is used in the video below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg&t=90s

    I believe the one in the video is made from a wooden paddle, but not sure. The rigging difference is that while the one in the video has two sets of support lines, I only have one set towards the outer end, since the carbon will take the stress of walking out on it.

    I would never take a cat out on the ocean unless I was certain I could right it.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • Also note the boom mounted brackets that hold the righting pole. These were made from teflon (I actually keep a stock of cutting boards in my garage to fabricate stuff). They latch with quick release pins.

    This was the season that I decided to spend a lot of time to make stuff on the boat work better. The pole used to be held by those god awful bungee loops with the plastic balls that snap you in the hand half the time you try to use them. I also used microblocks inside of the rudder tubes to give me a 2:1 purchase on the rudder raising lines. It can take considerable development time and trial-and-error to make this sort of stuff work right, but once it is done, it's done for the reminder of the time you own the boat.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • CatFan57Thanks a lot for the reply, Bill Mattson, aose, so I'm looking to make something more sure-fire.

    Hope you're able to make that trip if you're up for it. Looking to get my boat out there at some point too.Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 05, 2020 - 06:07 PM.


    When are you planning your next rip out.. maybe schedule it around one of the races..

    --
    John Schwartz
    Ventura, CA
    --
  • mattsonThe A-Cat in that video is my other friend Bob. Similar boat.

    The righting pole is a Solo~Right design, and I sourced the pole from McMaster Carr for around $250, if memory serves. Way cheaper options out there including sections of used windsurfer masts. I added the section of teflon cutting board to make the pole double as a paddle. I have soloed the boat twice with this device with no issues.

    The inventor demonstrates how it is used in the video below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg&t=90s

    I believe the one in the video is made from a wooden paddle, but not sure. The rigging difference is that while the one in the video has two sets of support lines, I only have one set towards the outer end, since the carbon will take the stress of walking out on it.

    I would never take a cat out on the ocean unless I was certain I could right it.


    Thanks for both replies, and sorry for the delay replying (had some work requirements that blotted out everything else). The lightweight carbon fiber pole looks great although, yeah, I might look for a cheaper pole. On the other hand, saving yourself is worth shelling out for, and not being able to right can cost you a lot more, including your boat and maybe your ass, as I almost found out. Interesting tip on the teflon cutting board too; sounds light and strong, so I may look to use that. When righting, do you insert the teflon board in the centerboard trunks or at the junction between the hull and the trampoline? I'm guessing the centerboard trunk, with the centerboard slightly retracted.

    Regarding storage of the pole, I was a little surprised you mounted it on the boom rather than somewhere else, for example in front of the front cross bar. Did you find an advantage mounting it there?

    I did watch the video you posted of the inventor. The best video I found though is by this guy, who has about 55K views on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/w…TRS5pTZGV4&feature=g-upl Looks like his pole is aluminum and he stores it in front of the front cross beam, and can solo-right his H18. I'm thinking I may try this route.

    I see Damon set up a page on this forum for "catamaran righting systems": https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=35080. My suggestion for Damon would be to add the video link to that page. I would do it myself, but don't know how.

    "I also used microblocks inside of the rudder tubes to give me a 2:1 purchase on the rudder raising lines." I probably won't be able to understand that without seeing it in person. I haven't felt a need to have greater ease at raising the rudders, but have felt a desire to have them stay down rather than popping up when you don't want them to, and seems I've seen lots of people wanting the same thing. I think I did read somewhere of people installing a jam cleat to hold the rudder lowing line so the rudder stays down even if it pops out of the retaining bracket. Not sure if that was you, Lance or someone else, but I might want to try that.



    Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 11, 2020 - 10:08 AM.

    --
    1998 P18.2 "Powda"
    Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
    --
  • JohnESWhen are you planning your next rip out.. maybe schedule it around one of the races..


    Hey John, great hearing from you, I hope you're doing well. No current plans for a trip, but the actual intent is for a more permanent move - in which case hopefully can have the pick of races to enter. Not guaranteed to happen, but think so, and if so, will take a few more months pull off. Fingers crossed, stay tuned. icon_biggrin



    Edited by CatFan57 on Dec 11, 2020 - 10:15 AM.

    --
    1998 P18.2 "Powda"
    Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
    --

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