classic Acat vs foiling Acat
-
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Apr 23, 2017
- Last visit: Feb 19, 2021
- Posts: 64
Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 11:35 AM
I sail hobie 16s and 18s and am intrigued by the Acat class of boat, is a foiling Acat a pain in the butt to sail compared to a classic Acat, is it worth stepping up to an Acat. I am 60 and think that a cat at half the weight of a hobie is a great idea,any thoughts. -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Mar 06, 2006
- Last visit: Aug 23, 2023
- Posts: 99
Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 02:28 PM
A well designed Classic A-Class is a dream to sail on all points of sail. A Foiler is the same upwind, but downwind it's like trying to sail blindfolded with one foot on ice and the other foot on a banana peel...
Granted, I love my foiler, but it's challenging to say the least. -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Apr 01, 2024
- Posts: 3428
Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 03:33 PM
Mike,
I've always been intrigued by the A-Class. In the old Portsmouth tables there were two listings
- A Class Cat A-C, with a D-PN of 64.5
- A Class Cat > 200# all-up, with a D-PN of 70.5
I don't know if that was meant to be a different boat, just a way to sail overweight A-Class designs, or if there were boats specifically built to be 200 pounds?
For members not familiar with the A-Class basic size rules:
- Min overall boat weight : 75 kg / 165.3 lbs
- Max overall boat length : 5.49 m / 18.3 ft
- Max overall boat width : 2.30 m / 7.5 ft
- Max sail area incl. mast : 13.94 m2 / 150.0 ft2
I sail the Hobie 18, which is the same length and width within inches, but way over 400 lbs depending on the age of the H18 and if it has wings.
So sailing a single hand boat that weighs less than half sounds great. My impression has always been that the best A-Class designs at any time are naturally designed for the top sailors, who would be the customers.
On this site we constantly get discussions about choosing a single hand boat for the "more mature" sailor who benefit from a lighter weight boat.
That always makes me think that a 200 pound (or even 100 kg, 220 lb) catamaran designed to the A-Class dimensions with high volume hulls optimized for 200 lb sailors would be just the ticket.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Apr 15, 2005
- Last visit: Feb 21, 2024
- Posts: 574
Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 07:27 PM
The A cat class at some point changed the rules from 200lbs down to the 165.3lbs we have now. I believe the newest foilers are back at this weight but some of the older boats and converted boats are up to 20lbs heavier. In my case I will end up heavier, starting with a minimum weight boat I've added a chunk of weight in boards. The foil boards are 7lbs each, if you told me the standard boards are less than 2lbs each it wouldn't surprise me. Light carbon fixed rudder stocks to heavier aluminum adjustable stocks, more carbon in the boat etc., im not expecting to win any light air races!
I will disagree some with what Mike says regarding the foilers, they are well behaved downwind but require patience, skill, lots of knowledge about boat setup and above all skill as they behave completely differently than anything else on water.
The floaters are great boats and I can highly recommend them for the solo sailor.
Damon, both the Marstrom and DNA C board boats carry over 200lbs of crew weight well, probably until the 220 range. Singlehanding an F16 is probably your next best option, but in terms of simplicity and bang for the buck, if you can find a Marstrom A cat I would go for it. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Apr 15, 2005
- Last visit: Feb 21, 2024
- Posts: 574
Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 07:31 PM
I will say that if you aren't prepared to practice a lot, wipeout a healthy amount, and sail comfortably from the trapeze on all points of sail a foiler probably isn't for you. A lot also depends on where you sail, the foiler can handle chop but is much happier in flat water and steady breeze than the floater. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Nov 25, 2015
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2024
- Posts: 657
Posted: Feb 03, 2018 - 09:16 AM
How sensitive are foilers to weight? I have been on the lookout for a floater, but at 250 pounds, I suspect that is too much for the boats to be competitive.
--
John
Nacra 5.0
CT
-- -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Apr 23, 2017
- Last visit: Feb 19, 2021
- Posts: 64
Posted: Feb 03, 2018 - 09:28 AM
So now I am thinking the classic would be my best choice there are straight boards and C boards I guess it is easier to fly a hull and how delicate are they when you capsize -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jul 20, 2016
- Last visit: Jan 15, 2024
- Posts: 56
Posted: Feb 03, 2018 - 10:39 PM
Catsalor,
Think of your Hobie Cat as a Chevrolet and the A Cat as a Maserati..........!
I'm also 60 and sail an A Class. I never wanted to foil because that truly is a young man's game. The designation is AClass (classic) and AClass Foiling. The US Sailing DPN tables are antique (out of touch) compared to the modern world.
Have fun,
Bob Curry
USA 304
--
Master UniRig Sailor
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Apr 15, 2005
- Last visit: Feb 21, 2024
- Posts: 574
Posted: Feb 04, 2018 - 12:53 AM
Catsalor,
C boards add margin to push downwind and in anything over 8kts of breeze they are faster upwind. They won't cause you to fly a hull sooner, but the newer rigs might. Winglets work with the C board boats and to some extent the straight board boats to stabilize the platform. Competitive C board boats are DNA's and Nikita's. Mikes old Flyer 2 I believe with c-boards and sliders also does quite well and some of the well setup Bimare XJ's, Marstroms and LR5's can hold there own. Rig is equally important, you want a flexi rig to make the most out of the additional power the boat can take downwind. The bug head Glaser decksweeper is a good setup with these boats IMO, the newest decksweepers are also going well on the Nikita's.
I'm simpler terms, boats like the Nacra A2/A3 and Boyer Flyer are nice straight board boats. C's can be fitted to the Flyer pretty easily and with a decent amount of rudder lift probably be competitive with the wider transoms of the newer boats. -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Apr 23, 2017
- Last visit: Feb 19, 2021
- Posts: 64
Posted: Feb 04, 2018 - 10:28 AM
Thanks for all the info it's nice to hear from those with some experience and I hope to be an Acat owner soon
