Hi,
I am looking to buy a beach cat to use with my children. I used to sail boats from beach cat to 36 ft racing boat. However, my children who are 6 and 8 have never done sailing. So I am looking for something to have fun with them with no hassle.
I am currently looking for a nacra 500 as no boom and no dagger (no hassle, just fun). The boat will be used only on a lake that can be choppy due to wind or wakesurfing boat, tubing. Winds on this lake will never be ocean wind type. Mostly in the 15-20 mph max unless there is a thunderstorm or hurricane coming, but in this case no one will be sailing. The lake in located in North Carolina, if this give you more inputs.
I am looking to have my children use the trapeze, so I hope 15-20 mph will be enough to put the cat on one hull with the spinnaker without the need for me to be under the wind.
I dismiss the nacra 570 as maybe too big.
I am looking for you feedback about my current choice
advice about which cat fits my needs
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 10:41 AM
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 10:51 AM
Great Choice!! Don't rule out the Supercat 17 either. Boomless and very hard to almost impossible to pitchpole.
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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 11:02 AM
Hard to beat the N500 for your needs. In 20mph breeze, you will have both kids on the wire.
Some see them as slightly underpowered when the wind is light, they really shine when it starts to blow.
We have touched 20 MPH on the GPS with our old sail '88 5.0
You have to work to pitchpole them.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 11:16 AM
I love the n500. sailed one a few years ago that was very dialed in - it was fun and easy.
i would probably recommend holding off on a spinnaker for the first season with young kids who aren't already familiar with sailing
adds a bunch of extra spaghetti (lines) all over the tramp, and may create additional work for rigging and trailering - but if you are really determined to use one right away - can be done for sure
Re Supercat 17:
(imho) great and fun boat for sure but the mast is very (very) heavy and may present a rigging issue with little kids as crew (typically a 2 person deal/ or gin pole needed unless you are a very big guy with a great system) -ymmv -
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 11:19 AM
True MN3..Mast is a beast.
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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 11:33 AM
Thanks for the feedback.
The cat will rest on a jet ski lift when not used, and bring back to shore for the winter layover. So there is no trailering issue. I guess I can let the mast on during the summer season. I plan to only remove the sails and sheets when not in used.
Agree with the spinnaker comment. There will be none at first :) -
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 11:45 AM
Sounds great!
Make sure you have sound (new) standing rigging so it doesn't break in a storm and drop your mast
How big/stable is this jet ski lift? unless it's attached to a dock or similar ... i can't picture it
can you elaborate?
Also - your crew, and situation sounds like a hobie getaway with wings may be a great fit too!
no boom, front tramp for gear or midgets in light air, hard to flip, easy to right, and plastic roto-mold so very durable ... plus lots of parts
(i personally would want the nacra, but thought it was worth mentioning the hobie)
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 12:07 PM
This is a normal jet ski lift attached to pilling. I saw a picture of that on this website. Do not remember which thread. The pilings on my dock have been designed to accept two 2000 jet ski lifts. The only difference is that you have more lever with a beach cat, but I guess it should be doable with a 400 lbs beach cat. I check the hobie gateway, but it looks like there are no spinnaker, no double trapeze. With two kids so young and close in age you should understand that if one is on a trapeze just for fun, the other has to be on a trapeze too, otherwise this is a world crisis :).
I looked at the topaz 16 too, which seems better than the hobie gateway.
By the way, except for the hull fabrication, what are the differences between a nacra 500 and topaz 16. -
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 12:20 PM
Just to chime in about the Supercat mast, and my experience is possibly a bit different.
I have had a SC 15 (shorter mast, same section) and a Nacra 4.5 (no spreaders), and Nacra 5.7 (spreaders)
Of the three of those imo the SC was the easiest to raise the mast and the 5.7 the most difficult. Because of the need to rotate the mast, and the diamond wires being in the way, the "helper" has a much harder time handling the 5.7 mast.
Supercat goes straight up and can be rested on the beam when needed since there's no diamonds. 25 yrs ago I could rig the SC alone if it was off the trailer. The rotation makes the Nacras harder
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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 12:24 PM
The -14, the mono-cat, and the Vanguard 15 are all cake...as long as you don't forget the pin when dropping the -14 mast!
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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 12:49 PM
Gotach - with a doc...
Haha! funny - yes i can imagine
Very nice looking cat
By the way, except for the hull fabrication, what are the differences between a nacra 500 and topaz 16.
well i'm no expert in either model but looking quickly at the specs of the topaz (https://www.eastcoastsailboats.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/East-Coast-Sailboats-2016-Topaz-16-Cat.pdf) - It's roto-molded hull vs. glass and gelcoat hulls, beams
TOPAZ 16
Boat Specifications
Length: 4.72 M / 16 Ft
Beam: 2.25 M / 7.4 Ft
Crew Capacity: 1-2 / 1-2
Main: 11.18 SqM / 120.3 Sq Ft
Jib: 2.17 SqM / 23.4 Sq ft
Gennnaker: 11.18 SqM / 120.3 Sq Ft
Nacra 500
Specifications
Length: 5.0 M / 16.4 ft
Beam: 2.44 M / 8.0 ft
Crew Capacity: 1-4 / 1-4
Racing Crew: 2 / 2
Mast Length: 8.23 M / 27 ft
Mainsail: 14.15 SqM / 152 sqft
Jib: 3.52 SqM / 38 sqft
Spinnaker: 17.00 SqM / 183 sqft -
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 12:51 PM
yup - me 2 - these day's it would kill me :) -
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 01:06 PM
We keep an N5.0 & either an N5.7 or H18 Magnum, ( and had the 20' x 10' Mystere also) on cantilever SeaDoo lifts, the only thing s is that comes off each day is the mainsail. You will have to extend the "arms" of the lift to appx 7' 3". (you don't need the full 8', CTC of the skeg is 7')
I recommend a furling jib setup, & leaving the jib up all season. With the Cat on a lift, even if the water is only 2' deep, you need really long arms to be able to stand in the water & reach the jib downhaul, or fittings to remove/attach the jib. You can lay a plank across the hulls, but that gets old real fast.
The H18 has a downhaul cleat built into the jib, not so on my Nacras. I added a small Clamcleat, just above the furling drum. I can just grab the downhaul, pull & cleat. No tying knots way above your head.
I also secure one of those small ratchet straps across the hulls, about where the jib blocks attach, & another line from the bottom of the V-brace bar to the lift,(the DS lines up with one X beams of the lift).
This has kept both boats safe, even in very strong winds.
The only downside is hoisting the sail. You can't pivot the boat, & so have to hoist/douse when the wind is not dead on. The older Nacra was very easy, even with the sail being pushed against the shrouds. The H18 can be a PITA. You may be able to tie a line from the dock to a bridal, & let the boat swing while you raise.
Looks like this;
Edited by Edchris177 on Jul 27, 2017 - 01:11 PM.
--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 01:49 PM
Nice setup @Edchris177
I like the idea to keep the jib on. Agree that in the water, you cannot really reach the jib and all the workarounds will piss me off quickly.
I do not understand all the details yet, but will look at it :) -
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Posted: Jul 27, 2017 - 02:05 PM
which inside opening version of cantilever lift you use? Looking at the red wheel I guess this is LSP lift. -
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Posted: Jul 28, 2017 - 11:35 AM
Yes, that one is an LSP, From the instruction booklet- Model LSC964 900lb 64" Beam Jet Lift
I drove across the Line & picked it up from a dealer near Canadaiuga Lk (SP?). I think it was only $400 at the time.
You need to measure the width INSIDE your hulls, & make sure that is wider than the width OUTSIDE of the supports the winch mounts to. The Cat has to stradle those posts.
It works perfect for the Nacras. The H18 is a tighter fit, due the lip in the Hobie hulls.
I heated & bent a piece of milk jug into a "U" & taped it around the beam the winch is mounted on, so if the Hobie hull contacts the beam, it will slide upwards without marking.
I never used the bunks for the SeaDoo. I mounted a 2" x 2" thick walled steel tube, 7'6" long across the lift, & attached a 5/4" x 6" wide PT deck board to the steel tube. That provides ample support for the skeg hull Nacra. For the Mysterer, or other more fragile hulls, I made some cradles out of green sewer pipe. A small chock mounted on on end of each board makes positioning the boat easy when you are solo.
My shore is shallow enough that I removed the legs from the lift. The Cat can catch a lot of wind, & the lift footprint is small. To ensure stability, I push a 2' piece of re-bar through the leg holes, then drop a 50lb pig weight over the re-bar.
This kept it upright in a 60mph blow.
The 5.0 sits on a smaller lift, where the winch post go INSIDE the hulls. It is not nearly as stable due to the small footprint of the lift. If you get something like a Hobie Wave, Nacra 4.5, or other boat with a short beam, you will have to find an older, smaller lift. My Dart 15 is only 7', & won't fit the LSP lift, but it is light enough to push up on the lawn solo, then wheel it away with the beach dolly.
Edited by Edchris177 on Jul 28, 2017 - 11:36 AM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jul 28, 2017 - 02:31 PM
Thanks for the reply @Edchris177
good info that their smaller cantilever foot print might not be big enough to resist wave and wind. I should be able to figure out something with all those information :) -
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Posted: Jul 29, 2017 - 08:32 AM
I have a lift for my Inter 20 called a Delta TL. Works very well. With an anchor it's rock solid. Made two improvements: 1. Added carpeted 2x12's for the boat to rest on, and 2. Turned the wheel around so I can stand on the lift to operate it.
Link to pick here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/IKyJS7KI5wwT0LeP2
Available from these folks:
http://ms-pyc.com/midwest…ies/delta-tl-boat-hoist/
If your like me...why by new when used is available:
http://ms-pyc.com/midwest…accessories/used-hoists/
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Steve
Nacra Inter 20
Okemos Michigan
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Posted: Jul 29, 2017 - 09:28 PM
Interesting solution @schoen.steve
I guess because they custom it for catamaran, they can charge twice the price of the basic Jet
ski one.
Will keep a look on them
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Posted: Jul 30, 2017 - 10:24 AM
I did that with the LSP lift.
XXRB, almost all lifts you can swap the wheel/winch to either side, and/or mount it so the wheel is either outside or inside the post the winch attaches to. On my lifts, the wheel has to go inside the post, else it hits the hull when you lift the Cat.
Edited by Edchris177 on Jul 30, 2017 - 10:25 AM.
--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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