What exactly is this?
I have heard some say it is sailing directly downwind with boom at 90 degrees. Others tell me it is sailing downwind with sail on "same side as the wind"
In addition some experienced sailors tell me it is as fast as a reach and if observant very safe point of sail while others say avoid it as I could accidently Gybe. and get smacked by the boom.
I have read lots and watched videos and I am still lost on this concept.
Along those lines any advantage to sailing wing and wing (main on one side jib on opposite side?
i have so much to learn
Sailing by the lee?
-
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jun 10, 2014
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2015
- Posts: 26
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 06:36 AM
-
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 08:51 AM
sailing hot downwind
pretty good explanation at this link -
http://fleet20.blogspot.c…peed-sailing-by-lee.html -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 08:55 AM
really depends on the boat.
dead down wind is the slowest point of sail, so you need the right boat, the right weight on the boat, in the right spot on the trampoline
h16's are crazy fast dead down wind, wing to wing
most other cats have do better gybing a few times and going faster in the long run despite all the slow downs gybing -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jun 10, 2014
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2015
- Posts: 26
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 09:07 AM
Thank you -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Apr 12, 2024
- Posts: 960
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 10:40 AM
Sailing by the lee is a technique that is used on Lasers and other small dinghys. It may also be done on a Hobie 14. This technique does not apply to any modern performance-oriented catamaran.
It is basically when you sail dead downwind and airflow across the mainsail flows from leech to luff rather than the normal direction which would be from luff to leech. This is fast on a Laser where there are no shroud wires to get in the way and the mainsheet can be let out so the boom is beyond 90 degrees to the centerline. Then the boat is heeled to windward and the weight of the boom along with the breeze holds the boom out. This technique can also lead to what is known as a "death roll" where the boat capsizes to windward. It is very unstable but can be very fast if done properly. Again however, it really doesn't apply to beach catamarans.
sm -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Apr 12, 2024
- Posts: 960
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 10:42 AM
You're kidding, right? No one races a H16 dead downwind. .
sm -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jun 10, 2014
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2015
- Posts: 26
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 11:55 AM
Tacking is a longer course than close to the wind but in the end as I understand it faster in the end would not jibing be faster than sailing by the lee . Or a different animal as you are going downwind not upwind as in a tacking course.? i suppose the question is as follows:
For a given wind speed what gives greater boat speed, directly downwind or jibing? -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Apr 24, 2014
- Last visit: Apr 09, 2017
- Posts: 98
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 01:14 PM
Check out the diagram in the link below. It shows the speeds for various points of sail on a H16:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/11315
--
Tim
81 Hobie 16
87 Nacra 5.7
Austin, TX
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 01:35 PM
not kidding at all. i have seen h16's wing to wing do very well (in distance / portsmouth racing) -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 02:54 PM
I have a Laser and works like this example. Go straight down a hill on a snow board without any edge and you are teeter tottering not really in control just sliding down. Until of course you catch an edge to gain control again. Same with Laser, straight down wind the boat is tippy but fast, nearly out of control, where you use your weight to offset rolling. Daggerboard is up half way. Rolling gets away from you and you're swimming. So, keep a little edge, just a tad off dead down wind. I've found you're just as fast. Yes with boom at 90 degrees.
So what angle do you sail hobies at going down wind?
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Apr 12, 2024
- Posts: 960
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 04:02 PM
Greater boat speed? Broad reaching gives greater BOAT SPEED than sailing dead downwind for any boat.
Greater downwind VMG? That would depend on the type of boat. As I said, the only beach cat that has better VMG dead downwind is maybe a Hobie 14 or a Wave. Every other beach cat jibes downwind (including a H16) for better VMG. Boats like lasers and most monohulls have the best dowwind VMG by sailing dead downwind. They don't sail fast enough on a broad reach to make up for the extra distance required for jibing downwind. Different techniques for different boats.
sm -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 26, 2015 - 07:18 PM
I vote for slightly off of dead running in a Laser. The death roll will loose you a lot of time. Jibing in Laser looses a lot of time.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
--
