Hello all;
I have two questions:
1. I would like some suggestions for a small, quick, single-handed cat/tri. Optimal crew weight of 200-225 lbs and a no stay/shroud mast, if possible. (Something quick and easy to rig.)
2. Same question but for a little larger boat that handle carry a max. crew weight of 400-450 lbs.
Thanks, Richard
## Single-handed cats
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Posted: Oct 26, 2012 - 04:58 PM
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Posted: Oct 27, 2012 - 02:25 PM
What do you wanna do with it?
Race or just blast around?
Got loads of cash or lots of time on your hands?
First thing that came to my mind was a Weta trimaran BTW.
I sail a Nacra 5.2 solo most of the time but she will take 2 and kick ass, for a non spin. boat, 400 lbs is above optimum for this design though, You'd be looking at an F-18 or nacra 5,8 or maybe a Hobie getaway for that range, off the top of my head.
Edited by dennisMe on Oct 27, 2012 - 02:26 PM. -
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Posted: Oct 27, 2012 - 04:02 PM
Like Dennis says, we need more info on budget and how you plan to sail. Lots of older cats can be sailed solo in light to moderate breezes, but if you want to right it solo, you need a lightweight boat like an A cat or F16. And solo righting is important if your sailing in places and conditions where outside assistance isn't assured. And lightweight boats are less durable(requiring more care launching and retreiving), and more expensive. I can't think of any performance cats that have unstayed masts, not sure about the Weta(which is a very trick design, nicely executed, and new enough that there aren't a lot of them on the used market yet. About $10K new). The A cat is mainsail only, and therefore easy to rig, and still very high performance due to the light weight and sophisticated rig. Older glass and kevlar boats start around $5K if you can find one, occasionally wood As show up for less. F16s are a newer class, designed for either solo or 2 up sailing, with spinnaker, and they're fast and fun. But newer, and therefore more expensive($6K and up), and spin systems require quite a bit more set up time.
If you want to race, you'd be wise to look around your area and see what classes are nearby. You ask for a small, fast boat, but at 2oo+ lbs I don't think you want to look at anything smaller than 16'. Too little bouyancy and you'll be pressing the leeward hull pretty deep in the water when powered up, producing a fair amount of drag. Similar consideration for 2 up sailing, probably 18' minumum, with serious racers in the 400+ lb teams going to 20' boats.
So tell us more about your sailing experience, and expected use. You're currently asking for a mix of features that are a bit in conflict(simplicity of rigging, high payload, and performance).
Dave
F16 Stealth
F18 HT
18 sq
Boyer A
ARC 22
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Posted: Oct 27, 2012 - 08:07 PM
This would be Hobie AI and Hobie Bravo, http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/
Both are quick to rig and no forstay/shrouds to mess with. Fun, but not performance boats.
Much more to choose from here. Hobie Wave and Gateway are very popular fun cats and relatively easy to rig. If you on small budget older Hobie 16 or Prindle 16 are great starter boats and a step into performance cats. Weta very innovative little boat with lots of carbon and 3 modern sails. There are a lot of older Nacra cats out there as well. My favorite of popular type currently in production is Nacra 500. I think it is $13000 new. If you have money to blow and a taste for performance, any of F16 or F18 would do, Viper, NACRA F16, etc. I should also mention new Nacra 17 -- with curved foils is truly awesome speedster.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Oct 27, 2012 - 10:27 PM
I would only recommend the Bravo for your kids. It is dead simple, unstayed mast, & the mast can be spun to furl the sail, BUT, it is not fast, especially with 200 lbs. I rented one for a week once. We sailed it against my Bombardier Invitation,(16' dinghy, much like a Laser). Didn't matter who was sailing the Invitation, they could beat the Bravo. The Bravo is 12', & only 4' wide, you will never trap out, & really it is underpowered. A good boat for what it was designed for, but you would have more fun, & be faster with a Laser.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 12:25 AM
Thank you all for the replies.
I want a cat for fun, "zooming" around the harbor turning basin and close-in offshore day sailing on occasion (southern California). Something quick, but not a true "performance" cat (no serious racing, but faster than the keelboats that I also sail.) As for budget, I'm looking for a used boat at $5,000±, less if possible.
The boat will mostly be single-handed. However, if I can get a good solo boat that can also carry a passenger (or two little passengers), so much the better.
It will be kept on a trailer with the mast down and ramp launched and recovered each day it is used. That is why I am interested in a stay-less mast (or one with short stays.) I don't really what the trouble of stepping a mast each time I sail the cat. (How long does it take to do that with a small cat?)
I hope that gives you a little better target to focus on.
Thanks again, Richard
Edited by rlltrash on Oct 27, 2012 - 10:49 PM. -
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 09:46 AM
You need a hobie 16 -
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 11:53 AM
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 04:51 PM
I agree with kdj. The Hobie 16 is a great boat for the beginner as well as seasoned racers. Good used ones are reasonable, they're found everywhere and parts are easy to get. As far as stepping the mast, I have done this by myself many times with a combination of rope, and bungee chord. I can arrive at the beach and be set up in 30-40 minutes. The other day I was cruising youtube when I found a clip of a guy using a tilt trailer for mechanical advantage while stepping the mast single-handed. I was so impressed I am going to try and adopt this method myself. I bet I could knock quite a few minutes off my setup time.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4RxwvjKtM -
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 06:47 PM
If you really want to eliminate the trouble of stepping mast, then Hobie TA could be your boat. It has carbon mast just pops into the the boat. I've sailed TA with my wife and kid (7) on (optional) trampoline.
Otherwise, stepping mast is not a big deal once you get use to it. It could be intimidating and dangerous at start. You may want to keep you kids away from the radius the mast may fall. You will need help of 2 adults first few times you do it. I use a winch and stabilize the mast with trap wires. This takes me 5 minutes single handed (H17).
H16 is without doubt a good starter cat. One other option for you is Hobie Wave. Wave is smaller cat with shorter mast (20'), whereas H16 mast is 26.5'. Shorter mast means easier to raise. Wave would be easier to rig and take care of at the cost of performance.
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 10:03 PM
If you hold out for a stayless mast for simplicity reasons, you're gonna sacrifice performance, with the exception of the Weta, which is probably out of your price range. Building a gin pole to assist in mast raising really minimizes the effort and risk, makes it easy to raise and lower the mast by yourself, and opens your choices to include a bunch of older cats that can deliver the zip you're looking for. Do put some thought into the issue of self righting if you're going to solo powered up(think righting pole or solo-right).
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 - 11:58 PM
Thank you for the replies.
Is there a reason to get a Hobie 16 rather than a Prindle 16? What is a Hobie TA? I can't find a boat by that name.
Richard
Edited by rlltrash on Oct 28, 2012 - 09:59 PM. -
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Posted: Oct 29, 2012 - 06:51 PM
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Posted: Oct 29, 2012 - 07:38 PM
I would recommend http://www.WindRider.com I know it's a tri but beachable. fun, Safe and won't turtle.
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Hobie 16 & 17, WindRider 16 & 17 and various monohull sailboats.
Hobie Sailing Dealer - WindRider Dealer - Port Charlotte, FL
http://www.JMBoatStuff.com
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Posted: Oct 30, 2012 - 07:04 PM
I would pick Hobie for better parts availability and a great support at
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=14
H16 is still being produced, whereas the entire Prindle line is discontinued. Prindle is less prone to pitch pole, but otherwise very similar boat.
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Oct 31, 2012 - 03:36 PM
P16s are bomb proof and have more flotation in the hulls, which reduces the pitch poling and hobby horsing tendancy the H16 has. But you can't beat the popularity and total quantity of H16s out there.
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John Fricker
Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
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Posted: Nov 01, 2012 - 09:55 AM
EVERY boat has pro's and cons (i.e. used hobie parts are more avail than prindl... that being said.. there are lots of prindle parts too)
and every boat is a trade off (i.e. my current boat has more storage, deck room, and horsepower than my previous two.. the trade off is it is over 550lbs loaded, and sometimes i can't solo right it even with a big righting bag, not to mention the 30' mast feels like it's filled with anti-matter)
I started on an h16, knowing what i know now, and for where i sail (often in the gulf, waves become a factor at times), i would probably prefer a p16 .. but these boats are very similar
one thing about the h16 i don't care for is the elevated tramp. The attachment points (pylon unit) seem to get loose often and be a problem.
Edited by MN3 on Nov 01, 2012 - 09:59 AM. -
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Posted: Nov 05, 2012 - 12:09 PM
Hobie Wave- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fUEa7FRpCA
or
A Cat- http://www.youtube.com/wa…67Z6YFUXvz4&feature=plcp
Edited by creative on Nov 05, 2012 - 12:10 PM.
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