I weigh 165lbs and am unable to right my Prindle 15. Should I consider a mast float or filling the top portion of the mast with foam? Any recommendations on a type/size of Righting Bag. In short I am not happy to venture out if I can't right the boat on my own, so I am open to all options/suggestions.
thanks
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Virginiasailor
Prindle 15
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RIGHTING A P-15
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 04:58 AM
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 07:22 AM
VS, it's all in the technique, righting a cat gets easier the harder the wind blows because we use the wind to help get the cat back up. Do not fill the mast with foam anywhere, but do make sure your mast is watertight, seal every rivet and join using silicone, next time you go sailing, drop mast in the water and check for bubbles, then seal. Do a search on this site for mast floats, there are threads on both home-made and commercial.
To right your cat, after you hit the water, compose yourself and take the following steps
1) swim over to cat and release main sheet from main block
2) release jib sheet from jib block (P15 has no jib)
3) swim to mast head and swim mast around and point mast into the wind.
4) swim back to cat, climb gently onto hulls, grab righting line and lean out
some helpful tips:-
on my P18, I had a single righting line attached to the tramp through a grommet, make sure you have knots at regular intervals for grip, sometimes I loop line through harness hook to take weight off my hands.
it will take a while for the mast tip to break free from the water, depending on how watertight the mast is.
it will also take a while for the sails to break their cohesion to the water, this is where the wind helps, it will get under the sail and break it free fast, if you have a mast bob, the job gets easier as it hold the mast tip above the water surface.
once the mast and sails break free from the water, the wind will bring the cat up quick, so you have to be quick to drop into water and grab onto center beam to stop cat pivoting all the way over the other way as the wind will catch the sails and want to capsize the boat opposite side.
hold onto center beam and your cat will slowly face into the wind, you know the rest.
....and finally, practice, practice, practice, untill you look cool doing it..........
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 08:01 AM
i have the large murray's righting bag.
works well with the right technique.
they also re-sell pretty quick on this site if you end up not needing it (i have purchased 2 from here) -
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 10:27 AM
Nice boat in the background of your pic!
I'm going to try to get out this weekend--maybe we can practice. I'm 160 and I can right my SC15 by myself without using the Supercat righting system.
Turbo has it right, but I have found that you can turn the mast into the wind by walking to the bow of the hull that is in the water. Remember, where ever you are on the boat, it will rotate around you (wisdom from the Rookie Race seminar).
The mast floats aren't sexy, but they are easy to take off once you are confident. I just saw one on eBay. I would get the 'Baby bob', that's all you need.
Call me, I don't have your number..
Edited by DanBerger on Aug 15, 2012 - 10:30 AM. -
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 04:58 PM
I agree with Turbo on all points except as Dan pointed out rotate the boat by walking to the bow. That extra swim to the mast in heavy weather will expend much needed righting energy. Now if you are a tri-athlete
then swim several laps around the boat before righting : )
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 05:37 PM
Everything here is good info. At 165 you should be able to do it, just remember it takes patience out there. One thing to remember is that it takes a couple minutes time for the boat to very very very, extra very slowly shear the water off the sails and allow the mast to break the surface of the water. Sometimes I see guys grab the righting line and lean out for a few seconds and tug, but then give up because the boat doesn't immediately flip on up, they swing back in, try again, try again, try again. The thing is, from my point of view, standing from far enough away you can tell that all they need is to wait awhile while leaning their weight out, because the boat was slightly and slowly coming up out of the water.. It's a very slow righting process when you have just barely enough weight to do it. And I know it feels like you aren't making the boat budge, but if you hang out there long enough it should come up. Honestly, I watch 3 guys, righting a P18 in heavy wind and they knew the drill, it took a very slow minute and a half at least for the boats mast to break the surface of the water, then suddenly the boat flipped over and capsized the other direction. even with all of their weight, probably close to 600lbs, it still takes some time for all of the weight of the water bucketed in the mainsail to clear off. It get exponentially easier for the last few seconds because suddenly the sail isn't dug under the water level and at that point you're only fighting the weight of the boat, with the wind (usually) on your side of the fight.
Luckily, Prindles have good, fairly water tight masts. The first time I flipped my P16 it was on it's side for about 10 minutes and the mast never sunk any more throughout the duration. Just look at the recent forum with that Prindle that was floating 30 miles off the coast, the mast was laying on the surface of the water for days, part of the reason it was staying afloat, bows up
If you haven't spent any money on this solution yet, I would suggest you buy a righting bag, whatever you find for cheap will do the trick because your weight alone should already be enough. Then practice, if somehow that wasn't enough, then I would look into homemade or used mast-bobs. But the less work and rivets and weight you add to the top of your mast the better off you will be. the righting bag folds down and can be stuffed in whatever bag you have on your trampoline.
$45 on ebay seems like a fine deal if you don't see any in the classifieds here. Shipping is gonna seem like a rip off unless you can find one locally or make one yourself.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Righting-bag-new-for-hobie-nacra-prindle-etc-/360420462561?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item53eabbcfe1&vxp=mtr
I know when people say you should do some drills and capsize on purpose, maybe you think "No thanks, I'll just get my practice in as soon as I actually capsize." But the honest truth is that if you flip it over 2 or 3 times on purpose, close to the beach, or in calm waters, or with a friend with you so that they can hop on and help if needed, then you will automatically gain a HUGE amount of confidence that you have the technique down, and with that higher level of confidence your skills of sailing on the edge and pushing the boats limits will improve because you won't have a fear of capsizing and being stuck. It's well worth it, and it's fun as long as the water is warm, you erase your uncertainty about the whole thing and capsizing stops becoming a bad part of sailing catamarans.
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
(Got it for free!)
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 06:13 PM
One thing about this site, hang out long enough and the light bulb will turn on! When I first got my boat I was puzzled by the fact that there were two EMT conduit straps on each side on the top of the mast. Seemed silly to me and I could not for the life of me figure out what they were there for.
The upper ones are just below the tip and the lower ones 31" below. I am thinking now that they are there to secure some type of float such as a boat fender. Any airtight container that is long and skinny would work so long as you could secure it. If it were skinny enough it would have little drag that far up and there should be enough flotation involved to keep the mast out of the water. I have to do some other tinkering this weekend so if I figure it out, I will try to post some pics.
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Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 06:34 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, I fully intend to practice; practice; and practice near the shore. My recent experience had me floating for about 2hrs with the mast in the water with no hint that turtling was imminent, before I got a hand to right the boat - so I'm confident that its a technique issue, with maybe an added bonus of a righting bag! Perseverance
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Virginiasailor
Prindle 15
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Posted: Aug 15, 2012 - 06:38 PM
Make your self a set of blocks out of some old jib blocks (2 to 1or more) to help you get the water bag out of the water with one hand and perhaps a ring to slip into on your trap snap on your harness so you can use both hands on the righting line.. .. H
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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness
I Need a A Cat Please
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Posted: Aug 17, 2012 - 08:18 PM
wow! 2 hours! what a bummer, I'm (especially) glad the mast held water. You know how many people have had similar experiences, got pissed and sold the boat? Good on you for asking for help.
I weigh the same as you and she popped right up for me, and I know you're in better shape than me...if I can do it, you can do it. Get the mast and bows at 45 degrees to the wind (make sense?) +3 on stepping on the bow to turn her around. Those righting bags are pretty cheap insurance, and you can run several gallon jugs up with the Main until you get the technique down. Enjoy, John -
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Posted: Aug 18, 2012 - 06:33 AM
Should have mentionned that water also got into the pontoon which could have had an impact on my ability to right the boat - although when help arrived it only took a small tug from two of us to bring her upright. A righting bag (200 lb capacity) is already on order from Murray's!
Edited by virginiasailor on Aug 18, 2012 - 11:11 AM.
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Virginiasailor
Prindle 15
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Posted: Aug 18, 2012 - 07:43 AM
200 gallon righting bag = 1,670 pounds.
That should do it . . .
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Philip
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Posted: Aug 18, 2012 - 10:16 AM
Well, I can now tell you from experience. I'm just back from one of the best sails of this year. Tipped our P16 over while soloing. 12 knots of wind gusting to 15/16.
Hopped in, swam the mast around and in less then a minute it was upright again. I'm just 160 pounds myself! :D
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Stefan, Denmark.
H14,H16,P16,P18,SC17,N5.8
Team StaySail
http://www.staysail.eu
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Posted: Sep 03, 2012 - 06:08 AM
Just to close off: I now have a righting bag, went out this past weekend tipped the boat and righted it immediately - good to go, thanks for all the advice.
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Virginiasailor
Prindle 15
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