Hey guys, I am looking to put a new set of Whirlwind sails on my 81 H18. I am buying new sails I would like to have the longer mast, just not that much more money for the taller sails. I have SX wings on it with all the proper cross beam and shroud reinforcement and no soft spots, and I would like to put an SX mast on it. So other then buying a new $2200 stick, what are my options?
I have thought about finding a good used H16 mast and put a comp tip on it to get me to the right height. Then of course all the other rigging for the 18 - diamond wires, mast hounds, etc....
or look for a good used SX mast, is that even an option???
or can I find a 30 ft all aluminum mast that will work on the H18?
I will be rigging a spinnaker in the future as well.
just looking for some ideas.
Thanks
Jim
PS: I am willing to trade the H18 mast with the comp tip, that I have for the larger SX mast (I don't know why anyone would want to, but nothing ventured nothing gained).
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Jim
New Orleans
'83 H18 SX mods 2013 -
'65 Lavey Craft 2005 -
'69 Cal 25 1997 - 2001
'80 P16 1980 - 1996
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build / buy H18SX mast????
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Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 06:21 PM
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Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 06:38 PM
You have several options, trading your mast for an SX is very possible depending on your location. Old SX sails are mylar and are mostly de-lam'ed by now. I wouldnt be surprised if someone with a shot SX main would trade for your mast and a decent sail.
You could buy a H18 solid mast and cut it and put your comp-tip on it.
Edited by bacho on Jan 30, 2012 - 06:40 PM.
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Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 06:40 PM
Would it be better to buy a H16 mast, that wouldn't have the diamond wires to relocate, I am thinking fewer holes in the mast?
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Jim
New Orleans
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Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 11:47 AM
I'm sure the cross section of a 16 is smaller... not a good option.
Best most likely course is to get an all alu H18 stick, cut it shorter and put an H18SX comptip on it.
That means also moving the diamond wires and spreaders. You're getting into some serious work for a measly 18 inches of extra mast.
Furthermore, the 18SX came from the factory w/good reenforcements in the glass at the wing mount points, to take the extra stresses of wings, and folks trapping from the wings.
I'd recommend staying stock and get the sails from Chip.
I had a 'real' SX from the factory, mylars, wings, etc until I flipped in shallow water, buddy stayed up on the high side adn the comptip gave way. To sail in Hobie legal events I got a standard rig and sails, put that one. I took the squaretop from Whirlwind (Chip) and had Shurr (Pensacola) cut it shorter. now I have the best of both worlds.
You should come to Ocean Springs and sail with us.... We get several H18s in the races, including the owner of this site (Beachcats.Com)... .and I can show you whatever you want about the H18, as can the others coming in.... in fact we just hosted the 2011 Hobie North Americans for the Hobie 18, 17, etc.. last summer.
Cheers,
Rob.
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Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 05:33 PM
Thank You very much for the invite and the input, I am planing on coming out in a few weeks when do you guys get together? are you a fleet?
I think I might just stay with the stock mast and get the sails cut for it. Rob you don't feel your loosing any performance?
I will be adding the extra reinforcements in the hull later this season, before I get the kids on the trapeze. It looks like several people have done that modification. Any other modifications I need to make???
I fixed all the soft spots by the drill and squirt method and if it stays solid I will post the pics LOL.
Do the wings need to come off for racing? Not a big deal just curious.
Thanks again, hope to meet you guys soon
Jim
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Jim
New Orleans
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Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 11:58 AM
Jim,
We're not a traditional fleet, but we're a fleet of different folks with different types of catamarans that all fleet up together for the fun of sailing.
I'm probably losing some performance by not having that SX mast with the squaretop, yes. But I think it's not that much from only an 18inch mast increase, and what I've lost I feel I make up in versatility between running Hobie sails in Hobie events, or the squaretop on my standard H18 size rig.
I'll add that when the wind is on and you want to go solo, the squaretop rocks..even w/o the jib.. and I can point much higher w/it (still without the jib) than I can w/the hobie sail. Chips sail is beautiful and has a real nice curve, and flattens when you honk on the sheet and downhaul. It's $$ but WOW.
Also, about gain/loss on mast size.. the portsmouth ratings between the SX and stock are .1 different... SX 71.3, H18 is 71.4
If you have wings I'd recommend the hull anchor plates and some extra glass inside, as the SXs were from the factory. At OS (Ocean Springs) no one will care if you race with wings or not....
Our race schedule is here... and the races are fun, usually with some great food, the pool is open, etc. And some of us H18 folks can help you get squared away, etc. Always fun.
http://www.osyc.com/index.php?module=Content&func=view&pid=22
in fact the picture is looking through my pentex squaretop from Chip.
Rob.- fleetcaptain at osyc dot com
Edited by robpatt on Feb 02, 2012 - 12:07 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 06:23 PM
hi jim!
the folks at osyc are awesome! it's a beachcat yact club if there ever was one, friendly and hospitable. the slip to ship and horn island hop are favorites of mine. the ocean springs/biloxi area is an excellent cat sailing situation...bay, channel, sound, and gulf sailing all right there. horn, both ships, and cat islands make for a gread day on the gulf. i live in hattiesburg and launch out of biloxi next door to the biloxi yacht club at a public launch that is barely used. no beachwheels needed, you can back the trailor to the beach and drop the sterns in the water. if you don't end up joining the osyc and are a trailor sailor, the "secret spot" is a great place to launch. be on the lookout for post titled "O SEGREDO FROTA"...that is when we talk about sailing out of the secret spot. here are a couple of shots to give you the idea! see you soon!
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prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Feb 03, 2012 - 06:47 AM
Thanks for the props Bill.
You all have an open invite to launch from OSYC, more fun when there's a few more sailors around.
The only "beach police" we have are fellow sailors (Bill you probably know most of them...) who make sure the boats are tied down well when t-storms come, and the sail locker is secured.
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Posted: Feb 03, 2012 - 02:42 PM
Thanks guys, we launched down in Long Beach the other day, not the best LOL. I am looking for better places to launch.
I should be able to get out there the weekend of March 4th, anything going on that weekend?
Who do I talk to about more info for OSYC, and or a tour of the club?
Bill love the Prindle, I learned how to sail on a P16 when I was 10 and I was soloing when I was 11. I dragged that boat all over So Cal. from Lake Paris to Belmont Shores all the way to Lake Lopez, even sailed it out of the old Long Beach Naval Station when I was active duty.
Thank You
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Jim
New Orleans
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Posted: Feb 03, 2012 - 04:35 PM
you will love the secret spot for trailor sailing!!! just take I-10 to I-110 exit in biloxi, cross biloxi bay and hwy 90 exit to ocean springs. head torwards ocean springs about a mile look for the biloxi yacht club on left(big blue building). it's a small black top with some old busted up piers and boat launches(i hope they never fix the piers, it keeps out the motor boaters). just angle your trailor to the left of the launches and drop the boat! just don't park your trailor in front of the launch spot! i rarely have to use my beach wheels(never if i'm in the truck and only if the tide is WAY out).
i LOVE my prindle! so easy to set up and launch/recover, rugged and reliable, i don't see me getting another boat until i buy that nacra carbon 20(in 20 years)...i would join osyc if i could get to the coast more often, mayby soon...but in the meantime the secret spot rules! give her a go and tell me what you think!
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prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Feb 03, 2012 - 05:45 PM
Jim, just give me a shout whenever you want to come by... I'll PM you w/my phone #.
I'm NOT a club recruiter... and Bill knows he can sail out of there anytime and leave it for the weekend if he wants. There's nothing on the calendar for March 4th... but a few folks are planning a sail out to and overnight on Horn Island the following weekend March 10th... weather permitting. Looks like we'll have a powerboat or two, nice to haul gear with. It's just a show up and go.. nothing formal or fancy. We call DMR and the Park Service to let 'em know "X" number of boats will sail up there and overnight. -
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Posted: Feb 06, 2012 - 10:13 AM
If you're buying a new square top for your H18, don't don't don't don't don't use a comptip. I promise you will regret it.
Dig up another H18 mast, splice them together, and keep a solid aluminum stick. Comptips are not designed for square top sails.
Trey
N20 1017
www.velocitysailing.com
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Trey Brown
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Posted: Feb 06, 2012 - 11:26 AM
Trey, good to see you on here, don't be a stranger. We could certainly benefit from your experiences.
Just wanted to say that although it's true that the comptip masts weren't designed for squaretop sails, neither were any other masts from the 70's and 80's.
I've been using a squaretop on my H18 with a comptip mast since 2007 and enjoyed it very much with no problems. It probably makes a difference if the sailmaker is familiar with the characteristics of comptip masts.
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Posted: Feb 06, 2012 - 02:13 PM
I take it the comptips are tender? or easily broken?
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Jim
New Orleans
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Posted: Feb 06, 2012 - 05:30 PM
I wouldn't say tender at all... Damon has one, no issues, IIRC he's running 8:1 downhaul? I've got one now, no issues, 6:1 downhaul..... some folks on the H18 forum at hobiecat.com have really tricked out their H18s with square tops, self-tackers, spins, etc... no issues....
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=13
here I am w/the SX mast and squaretop...
[url]http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=83232[url]
All that said, I'd prefer a 1 piece solid alu mast... but wouldn't let that hold me back.
MY issue, was after flipping in somewhat shallow water, my inexperienced crew though it was better to stay on the high hull (the one in the air)... rather than slide down the tramp, maybe hit the boom or mast, etc, etc... All the while he's on that high hull, the pointy end of the mast is getting pressed into the bottom, and his weight was on that side of the boat, rather than on the other side where it's help pull the mast away (up) from the bottom.... I remember feeling the comptip give way, then the boat rolled over a bit more., BUT when we righted it, MAN did it come over faster.
The comptip is a hollow fiberglass section, reenforced at the top for the halyard hook, etc... with a foam plug at the top, and another at the bottom... and it inserts into your mast a few inches PAST the mast hound that your shrouds, etc connect to...
Edited by robpatt on Feb 06, 2012 - 06:19 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 07, 2012 - 10:25 AM
I've rigged a squaretop on a comptip mast (H18sx stick). Compared to a solid alum or carbon stick, you're not going to get the same performance.
My point is this: if you don't already have a comptip mast, don't add a comptip just to get the length. Splice 2 aluminum sticks together, you'll be able to build a better, more tunable mast.
What kind of results do you guys have racing with the square tops on comptips?
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Trey Brown
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www.velocitysailing.com
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