We have 4 or 5 new to the sailors, spinnaker boats. None have flown spinnakers yet.
2 Hobie Tigers
3 Nacra F18s
1 Nacra 20
Would like some suggestion of what never to do, such as head up when a big puff hits.
Also what things to make sure you always do, such as mast rotator setting etc.
I would like to put together a list to pass on to the new spinnaker flyers.

Thanking you in advance for your help.

never dump the mainsheet when flying the spin.
Always ease the rotator to 90 degrees

Always carry speed through jibe. Much lower risk of capsize.

Tape everything that can rip sail.

Use retrieval line with exposed dyneema core. This will prevent burn holes in spinnaker. Certain line coverings are almost guaranteed to produce burn holes. I essentially never get them with exposed dyneema.

Forward sailing spin sock cover is awesome. I sometimes store wet spinnaker (saltwater) and never have any issues with mold (New Jersey).

This is the exact topic that I wanted to start since I just started flying a spin. I have read to let up on the
downhaul under spin. Anyone do this? Also I have read that letting out the traveller a foot helps to depower the
spin? Be good to add tips on how to sail the spin as long as it does not take away from the original question.
Thanks Hullflyer. I would be interested in ways to depower. Our crew on the I20 is just over 300lbs.

--
Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
--

Sail deeper to depower the spin. The I20 is amazingly responsive to rudder adjustments under spin. We've never gone over because the rudder would not let bear away to depower, no matter how heeled over the boat was. It's just awesome.

Quote

Also I have read that letting out the traveller a foot helps to depower the
spin?

Unless you're power reaching with the kite, this will power up the top of the main and drive the bows down.

More for the crew running the spin, but

Develop a mantra for the hoist and takedown. Example-on the C2 I go from the outside of the tramp to the inside. Starting from the wire, tack line out, downhaul off, jib eased, rotator off, hoist.
Takedown is basically the reverse, setting everything on the way out to the wire in the order that I pass them.
Nothing sucks more than popping the kite, getting set in the straps and then realizing you forgot a step.

Be willing to blow the kite. Capsizing with the kite up sucks.

Keep your eyes on the leading edge. Keep that nice curl. These boats are so light and responsive, a momentary lapse allowing the kite to collapse will suck all the speed out of the boat and the skipper has to head up again to heat it up. If you have to take your eyes off of it, over trim it a hair.

Communicate with the helm. Let them know when you've got good pressure, let them know when you lose that pressure.

For the helm

If you begin to stuff the bows, sheet in.
It's one of a handful of times the old saying "if in doubt, let it out" will actually make it worse.

Small, smooth helm inputs. This can't be overstated.



Edited by badfish on Jul 11, 2019 - 01:45 PM.

--
Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Quote

It's one of a handful of times the old saying "if in doubt, let it out" will actually make it worse.

lots of things work in reverse with the chute up

To be clear, traveling or sheeting out can cause mast to break. Mainsail is the backstay when flying spinnaker.

traphappy

To be clear, traveling or sheeting out can cause mast to break. Mainsail is the backstay when flying spinnaker.

I don't agree with letting the traveler out will break the mast (under spin)

I crack off the traveler at times up to a foot - as long as you still have the main sheeted - you have the backstay effect working

You can safely travel down to the footstrap on pretty much any beachcat in almost any condition and not break the rig.

Keep the mainsheet in tight, tighter is better when first learning. Highly experienced helms can play the mainsheet downwind. We leave the helm on the wire through the first gybe but again, that's with a highly experienced helm who is used to driving downwind from the rear foot strap.

Good Topic!

Now that there are more older spin boats around it's more likely than ever that a newby will end up with an F18 or similar as their first beachcat.

Tips on how to depower would be important, these boats have incredible power that new beachcat sailors (even if they are experienced mono sailors) don't understand.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

MN3

traphappy

To be clear, traveling or sheeting out can cause mast to break. Mainsail is the backstay when flying spinnaker.

I don't agree with letting the traveler out will break the mast (under spin)

I crack off the traveler at times up to a foot - as long as you still have the main sheeted - you have the backstay effect working

I've seen guys power reaching, travel all the way down. They're carrying the kite long after we take ours down. It took us a while to figure it out.

--
Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Quote

Tips on how to depower would be important

Take it down. Seriously, if you find yourself overpowered for your skill level, take it down.
Drive it deep
Sheet in/Travel in the main

--
Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Cool. I was mistaken to say traveling out would endanger the rig.

traphappy

Sail deeper to depower the spin. The I20 is amazingly responsive to rudder adjustments under spin. We've never gone over because the rudder would not let bear away to depower, no matter how heeled over the boat was. It's just awesome.

The interesting thing so far with the spin out the boat flys the hull really high but in great control. As it starts
to over power I turn down and the chute wants to collapse. I can s turn up and down to keep a full chute but
at the expense of a really high hull. I am sure that it is technique but have not found a way to keep the hull low
and keep up speed. The one time I cross controlled and steered up the boat went over on it side. We got out on the high hull the boat came down and away we went. Really weird not to have gone over. Others in the race behind us said both boards and both rudders were out of the water. The I20 is amazingly
responsive to rudder inputs all the time : )

--
Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
--

Boards up a bit with spin. Two reasons for this. First, you don't need all that lateral resistance. So, reduce drag. Second, it raises the height of the lateral resistance, which reduces the tendency of the boat to want to heel.

I've read not to sail downwind with the boards fully down on an I-20, that they can break. Don't know if it's true, or why downwind would cause more board load than double trapping upwind.

O.T. last summer I was just launching, and broke a pintel. I was sailing with a former International 14 N.A. champion, so figured it was a fine time to do something risky. We had a great sail in good breeze, the whole thing done with one rudder. Only flying a hull until the one rudder was halfway out of the water took concentration.

ericrayl

I've read not to sail downwind with the boards fully down on an I-20, that they can break. Don't know if it's true.

I know of at least 2 instances where this was the case (not on I20). The boards just blew up. Both times the boards were in good condition.

--
Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

ericrayl

I've read not to sail downwind with the boards fully down on an I-20, that they can break. Don't know if it's true, or why downwind would cause more board load than double trapping upwind.

As mentioned before, you want to reduce the "tripping" moment as we call it. Deeper boards increase the leverage that the boards have on the boat; also, the lift generated by the board increases as the square of the velocity. Since you're sailing a wider angle, you don't need as much lateral lift and because the speed is higher, you get the same lift with less board. There are times when you want more board downwind to start flying a hull earlier, but generally speaking, you don't want the boards full down with the kite up.

As far as the increase in load upwind vs. downwind; think about if you were double trapped. Same righting moment, but now essentially double the sail area.

Quote

There are times when you want more board downwind to start flying a hull earlier, but generally speaking, you don't want the boards full down with the kite up.

any thoughts with this in regard to centerboards vs dagger boards?

Drop it early, drop it often.

--
Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
--

MN3

any thoughts with this in regard to centerboards vs dagger boards?

You're hosed...

Kidding. So, since the boards are much lower aspect, they aren't nearly as efficient; not to mention shorter and don't have the leverage of a longer board.

With the Tornado Sport, you want a good half-gasket job and you just leave the down all the time. First, you need every bit of lift that you can get because of the larger sail plan. Second, you want a good seal between the trunk and the board, so if you create a situation where the gasket or trunk is catching water, that's worse than the drag from having the board full down. Full gaskets would let you run the board partially up and not behave like a parachute, but the half-gaskets can't because of the shape of the board/trunk.

For other centerboard boats; Prindle 18-2, 19, Hurricane 5.9, all depends on the shape of the board/trunk as well. If I remember correctly, the 18-2 and 19 are shaped so that the boards fit in the trunk even when partially rotated up? Regardless, if you're trying to wild thing without a kite, you need all the leverage you can get and therefore should have the board all the way down as well.

We ran a Tornado with a mast that is ~5' taller than stock and ~18% more sail area in the FL300 two years. There was never a time when we thought we needed to pull the boards up to depower like you would in a daggerboard boat. One, they just aren't very long/deep (leverage); two, because of the extra sail area, we were at a deficit for board lift even worse than normal. Keeping the boards down was a problem b/c you could hear the water in the trunk and the helm feel would change for the worse if they moved.

I think of it like the rudders on a Hobie 16. Just keep them down b/c you're more likely to lose speed because you were messing with them when you should have been trying to be smooth with the helm and sail trim.

wlrottge - I agree with all you said
what do you mean 1/2 gasket?

on my board-well (bottom) i use a 3" gasket that i either slit down the middle for the board or i cut it into 1/2 prior to gluing