Are the large, low pressure tires on cat tracks/beach wheels owner-serviceable? One of mine has a slow leak and I'd like to fix it. I took it to a tire shop about a year ago, they said they fixed it, but it still leaks. If we can do it, what's the best way to go about it?

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Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
--

Alright, sorry for the double post; it said the first one timed out so I tried again. Looks like they both went through though, and I can't figure out how to delete one.

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Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
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mookie

Are the large, low pressure tires on cat tracks/beach wheels owner-serviceable? One of mine has a slow leak and I'd like to fix it. I took it to a tire shop about a year ago, they said they fixed it, but it still leaks. If we can do it, what's the best way to go about it?

really all you can do is replace the air valve/stem - if that doesn't fix it you will probably need to get inner tubes for the tires

you will probably also need to take the tire to a shop to get the inner-tube installed unless you are great at tire service

MN3

mookie

Are the large, low pressure tires on cat tracks/beach wheels owner-serviceable? One of mine has a slow leak and I'd like to fix it. I took it to a tire shop about a year ago, they said they fixed it, but it still leaks. If we can do it, what's the best way to go about it?

really all you can do is replace the air valve/stem - if that doesn't fix it you will probably need to get inner tubes for the tires

you will probably also need to take the tire to a shop to get the inner-tube installed unless you are great at tire service

Yes, change out the valve stems, and get rubber screw on caps for them, they are not meant to get wet... Also, get some Green Slim and follow the instructions... stuff works wonders...



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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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I don't have first hand experience but from what i hear/read slime is a temporary emergency fix, not permanent and can cause wheel balance issues - not sure i would go that route personally unless on the side of the road with a flat

What kind of beach wheels? You can get innertubes for cat trax (the black inflatable atv style wheels). Rollez wheels (the smaller grey wheels) can supposedly be fixed by welding with a heated up piece of metal (like a screwdriver). I tried that once and it just made the hole bigger.... I had moderate success patching the hole with 5200 sealant, but it just slowed the leak.

I know some who have used slime or fix a flat but that only worked temporarily. I believe I’ve also heard of some who’ve cut a hole in the sidewall of the tire and poured in post hole mix (expanding foam). That of course would add a fair amount of weight and eliminate the advantage of having a pneumatic tire.

The other option, if the leak is pretty slow, is to just get a cheap bike pump and toss it in the boat box to pump up the tires as needed. I did that for quite a few years.

sm

No experience with leaking beach wheels, but I think I'd grab some soapy water, find the leak, if stem replace it and/or put some slime in it. Its a mess to clean when you change tires, but that's not really a problem on beach wheels.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Get the inner tubes and be done. I have tubes in both of my cattrax wheels. Don't use the slime as its meant for emergency type repairs.

The boat I just recently purchased had a cat tack tires that would hold air... They have been sitting for a while and have some cracks in the sidewalls.. I replace the valve stems with new ones pumped them up and they still leaked.. I "slimmed them" as we say... and a year later they are still holding the air..

Green Slime is a permanent fix and has been a staple of many MTB riders here in CA for the past 20 years...



Edited by JohnES on Jun 27, 2019 - 05:09 PM.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Quote

Green Slime is a permanent fix and has been a staple of many MTB riders here in CA for the past 20 years

Obviously John works for the Slime Company and can't be trusted
(totally kidding)
I don't mean to discount your first hand knowledge. I completely trust it.

All i know is their own website said max speed of 65mph; so do not ever drive your boat on it's beach wheels over that ...

Mookie, you didn’t mention if you have tubed tires now.

And are the sidewalls cracking? Corrosion on the stems?

Got any Picts?

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Prindle 18
96734
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i wouldn't recommend the sealer. most of them really corrode the wheel. there are foam fillers out there. call local roofing company about foam filling tires. they know about this as to wheel barrows rolling across roofing nails.

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1978 H18
1983 H18 (some of it)
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nohuhu

Mookie, you didn’t mention if you have tubed tires now.

And are the sidewalls cracking? Corrosion on the stems?

Got any Picts?

The tires are in great shape and maybe five years old. I think I'll order a tube from Murray's.

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Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
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JohnES

I replace the valve stems with new ones pumped them up and they still leaked.. I "slimmed them" as we say... and a year later they are still holding the -->

John, did you replace the valve stem yourself, or is it a tire shop job?
I have one tire with a very slow leak, & I only use my Trax a couple times a year, but I thought I’d change the stem.
Can you break the bead yourself? I have tool for pulling new stem.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Edchris177

JohnES

I replace the valve stems with new ones pumped them up and they still leaked.. I "slimmed them" as we say... and a year later they are still holding the -->

John, did you replace the valve stem yourself, or is it a tire shop job?
I have one tire with a very slow leak, & I only use my Trax a couple times a year, but I thought I’d change the stem.
Can you break the bead yourself? I have tool for pulling new stem.

You don't need to take the tire off to replace the valve stem.. Manny, Moe, and Jack can hook ya up with a complete kit...

However, before you do any of that.... change out the actual Schrader valve that is inside the valve stem... about 80% of my leak problems have been solved by just doing this. They get corroded out if they are not caped.



Also when you put the caps on, give the treads a little rub or silicon or water proof grease to help keep he water out...

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Good advice to try replacing the core first. If that’s the source of lost air. Spray on the soapy water to be sure.

John, are you referring to an emergency replacement valve that doesn’t require a breaking the bead? Or a rubber snap-in that does?

Like the Slimes: https://www.etrailer.com/…and-Repair-SLM20077.aspx

Once you break the beads on these floppy treadless tires, the fun stops.

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Prindle 18
96734
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You should only have to break one bead to either install a tube or new valve stem. Makes reseating the bead
much easier. If replacing the tube then there is no issue with the bead.

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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Ordered a tube from Murray's. I'm hoping it will be easy to pop the bead, put the tube in, and reinflate. We shall see.

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Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
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fill em full of slime

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Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
'87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
'74 sunfish "1fish"
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soapy water in a spray bottle... look for bubbles

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1978 H18
1983 H18 (some of it)
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pknapp66

You should only have to break one bead to either install a tube or new valve stem. Makes reseating the bead
much easier. If replacing the tube then there is no issue with the bead.

How did you break the bead? I haven’t tried on these tires, but even my lawn tractor defeated me. Ended up taking them to the John Deere shop

JohnES

You don't need to take the tire off to replace the valve stem.. Manny, Moe, and Jack can hook ya up with a complete kit...

However, before you do any of that.... change out the actual Schrader valve that is inside the valve stem... about 80% of my leak problems have been solved by just doing this. They get corroded out if they are not caped.


...

Sorry, what, who is Manny, Moe & Jack? Yes, the tire does not have to be removed, but you still need one bead fully broken in order to get the new stem inside, then pulled through, no?
I should have thought of the actual valve core itself, I have some of those.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

who is Manny, Moe & Jack?

Quote

who is Manny, Moe & Jack

Ooh! I know this one!
The "Pep Boys"

I thought they were all closed down though.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Quote

I thought they were all closed down though.

No sir - they are still in business

badfish

Quote

who is Manny, Moe & Jack

Ooh! I know this one!
The "Pep Boys"

I thought they were all closed down though.

They are alive and doing very well...

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Edchris177

Sorry, what, who is Manny, Moe & Jack? Yes, the tire does not have to be removed, but you still need one bead fully broken in order to get the new stem inside, then pulled through, no?
I should have thought of the actual valve core itself, I have some of those.

I have a set of these from my Enduro/MX days.



Or, get one of these from Harbor Frieght & Tool or take it to the local ATV shop...





Edited by JohnES on Jul 01, 2019 - 07:49 AM.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Man, I've got to warn you about those tire spoons for motorcycle tires. Used them a BUNCH and decided to do my lawn tractor tires; changed them to ATV tread - the tires were cheaper, I didn't get stuck anymore, nor did I slip down into the ditch...man that was embarrassing! The third time.

So, I was working the tread off the rim and the damned spoon flew out and whacked me, right in the face. I was in the line of fire because that's about where your head is when you're trying to break the bead. Lucky it was slightly deflected or I would have been going to hospital for stitches.

I ended up breaking the bead by compressing the sidewall using a jack and sticking it under my truck for the other side of the jack. Very not-elegant. I swore I'd spend the money at the local ATV shop after that Saturday... And, yes Slime is quite caustic; eats the paint off the rims on the inside. The tires, brand new are only $40... doesn't seem worth it to buy a $30 tube, unless the rim isn't sealing any more (then it makes a lot of sense).

Let us know how it goes.

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Chuck C.
H21SE 408
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A $30 tube made a lot of sense when I didn't think the bead would be any big deal....

--
Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
--

Quote

I ended up breaking the bead by compressing the sidewall using a jack and sticking it under my truck for the other side of the jack. Very not-elegant.

That's a heck of a lot more elegant than we used to do. I'm actually stealing that one.
We would just toss it down on the ground and very carefully run it over with the truck to break the bead. Can of ether and a lighter and you were on your way.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

If the spoons don't get ya, the starter fluid will,..

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Prindle 18
96734
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Rather than using flammable liquids to set a bead, I suggest removing the valve core and using an unrestricted air blower that fits the valve body. It rapidly adds air and will set the bead safely. Then just screw in the valve core and bring to the rated pressure.

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

So there is no misunderstanding, for setting the cattrax bead without a tube, you need a high volume air source as opposed to a high pressure one. Volume- not pressure will do the job. Most home compressor pumps will fail at this, and many tireshop ones will fail too.

Using a 30-50lbs source on a 10lb tire is pushing it as far as I would go. Removing the core is a good move, even if you are using combustion. Chances are you will never achieve the volume needed to overwhelm the large void left between the rim and the bead. A sudden blast of air is the key (starter fluid or air cannon). Or a very large volume of air applied gradually with a seal... (google 5 gallon bucket method). Or compressing the tire along the "tread" with a tourniquet to expand the tire wall sometimes works.

All that said, a used tire may be much easier to set the bead on than a new one, since it will have some shape memory. I hope is is for you. By using a tube, Mookie should bypasses this problem, but they introduce long term maintenance issues around saltwater.

Maybe slime is not such a bad idea- unless it etches the aluminum rims near your valve/bead over time. If it's inert, it should be fine. After all I went through with these tires, I would try it.

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Prindle 18
96734
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almost sounds like taking it to an atv shop is the easy way ...

Quote

Rather than using flammable liquids to set a bead, I suggest...

I never meant to imply that I suggested it. I've done a lot of things I don't recommend.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Quote

I've done a lot of things I don't recommend.

can we have a list of these things please (just so we don't follow you down that rabbit hole) :)

MN3

Quote

I've done a lot of things I don't recommend.

can we have a list of these things please (just so we don't follow you down that rabbit hole) :)

Where's the fun in that?
We should all get the opportunity to look back in our past and get to shake our heads and wonder how we're still here. Keeps it exciting.

--
Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

Googled 5 gallon bucket method and lighter fluid method. I thought I was redneck, but you guys are killing it. I can't wait to try both methods.

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Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
--

mookie

Googled 5 gallon bucket method and lighter fluid method. I thought I was redneck, but you guys are killing it. I can't wait to try both methods.

When you get to the Ether method, I would like to make one request. For science.

Take your resting heart rate and then take it again immediately after it ignites and sets the bead.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--

lol

--
1978 H18
1983 H18 (some of it)
--

And roll the GoPro - just for science.

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Prindle 18
96734
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nohuhu

Maybe slime is not such a bad idea- unless it etches the aluminum rims near your valve/bead over time.

Nope

https://www.slime.com/us/blog/5-tire-sealant-myths-busted.php

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

Slime - we use it EXTENSIVELY in central Texas - cactus that punches through radial tires... I don't know about the aluminum, but can testify it'll eat the paint off of painted rims. Typical paint anyways.

Tires are cheap - $36: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nanco-N800-21-12-8/55346860

Was going to just use large, tire commercial patches on the outside, but that would end up being about $20 for the glue and the patches... $75, delivered for a new set of tires ain't bad...

Trick is, you have to watch Wally World as the price fluctuates, and to keep price down have them delivered to store, for free. I have to change mine. Don't know if I want that evidence on tape... I guess for posterity, and science... I've had luck with the tourniquet method; we'll see and I'll report back on my Cat Trax tune-up.

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Chuck C.
H21SE 408
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Looks like this is one we should use for our tubeless tires.


https://shop.slime.com/pr…d?variant=14223866691650

And as usual, you need to read the fine-fine print. For example:

Myth No. 5: Tire sealant is not safe for my wheel rims
Busted! Slime tire sealant is specially formulated with rust and corrosion inhibitors that work to protect the integrity of your finished metal rims. In automobiles, we recommend removing the tire sealant and repairing your flat tire within 3 days or 100 miles. In non-highway vehicles (such as bicycles, ATVs, trailers, farm equipment, etc.), Slime’s tire sealant will prevent flats for up to 2 years without causing damage to your rims.

And yet:

Will Slime damage my rims?
If pre-existing damage is present, we do not recommend using Slime. Do not leave Slime inside your tires for more than 2 years. After that time, we cannot guarantee the integrity of your rims. Slime’s Emergency Tire Sealant formula is intended to be used as a temporary emergency repair in passenger vehicles.

What happens to Slime’s sealants after 2 years?
Slime sealant is a liquid that may dry out over long periods of time. For maximum puncture protection and optimal performance, we recommended that Slime be replaced after 2 years. For most tires and tubes, this will also be the time period for replacement due to wear and tear.



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Prindle 18
96734
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Here's an update on the repair attempts so far:

-The leak was not from the valve, and I decided to install a tube and be done with it.
-Breaking the bead is a pia. Checked inside tire and rim for burrs or sharp objects. None found. Pia.
-Tube $30 from Murray's. Installed tube on my own. Pia. "Small" tire hard to work with. Hard to not pinch tube.
-Inflated tube to 10 psi. Held air for 10 minutes, then deflated. Three hours invested so far. Tube no longer holds air.
-Frustrated. Tire work on anything other than a bike tire belongs to tire shops. Bought slime. Slimed tube. Didn't work.
-Drank beer. Ordered entire new rim and tire assembly, $169. Fantasized about how best to destroy the old one.
-Awaiting new tire. Race in two days. Bought new valve stem. Removed slimed tube. Will attempt to install new valve, seat bead, and slime tire in order to race.

If I had it to do over again, I would slime it in a heartbeat and be done with it.



Edited by mookie on Jul 15, 2019 - 04:28 PM.

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Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
--

~~ I've been watchin this post..... I got a tube from Murrays. No problem and it is a pain in the Arse. You must'av pinched it... I filled mine to 20+ lbs to seat the tire, then let some air out to 10 lbs... Still holding air !!! In my opinion slime is the worst but hey, people like it ~~ I've done most of my Trl tires by hand on the garage floor~~~~~



Edited by popeyez7 on Jul 15, 2019 - 06:14 PM.

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

Yeah, I probably pinched the tube.
Here's the next update:
-Installed new valve stem, under 60 seconds
-Lubed rim and tire with dish soap, hooked up air, lifted tire and easily seated bead in under 60 seconds.
-Soaped tire, did not find leak at first, but found it while rinsing tire. Small pin hole in side wall.
-Slimed the tire, sealed the pinhole.
Some things to consider: these tires will never do over 10 mph or 10 psi, so most cautions are probably moot. It's a quick fix that will last a looong time, and is without consequence if it fails. It's a different scenario for cars. Also, these tires are not high speed steel belted radials, so maybe plugging them is an option if you don't like slime. Not sure if the sidewall is strong enough for a plug, though.

--
Falcon F-16
Taipan 4.9
S2 7.9
--

~~ My tire had some cracks in it... Tried to put a patch on it , 3 of them using the rubber cement... It didn't work, so I did the tube thingy~~~~~~~~~~

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

Mookie, I had another club member tell me the same story this weekend. New tubes did not hold air after setting bead, rims were rusty, etc, etc,..

He was looking for used cattrax for sale and swearing he would only buy plastic wheels for his H16 from now on.

Everyone should read this thread and be advised.

(BTW, new rims and assemblies usually come with proper valve stems installed).



https://floridasailcraft.…-accessories/catamarans/

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Prindle 18
96734
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