How to keep jib from flogging at anchor or on beach during setup when very windy

Does anyone have any tricks for keeping a mylar self-tacking jib (no roller furling) from flogging when: a) leaving the boat anchored off the beach for lunch; b) when setting up the boat on a windy 15 knot day? Mainsail is fine, but the jib wants to flog. Thank you.
You can wait until just before you’re ready to launch (i.e. everyone is geared up, boat is loaded) before hoisting the jib. Or you can hoist the jib, disconnect the blocks from the clew, manually wrap the jib around the forestay, and then tie the clew to keep the sail from un-spooling. When you’re ready to sail, un-wrap the jib and connect the blocks.

sm
+1
Interesting post.
On the AHPC C2 I crew on (fully battened jib), the jib doesn't go up until we're ready to go and comes down when we get back. That said, I have considered rigging a bit of bungee to connect to the clew of the jib and then to the end of the front crossbar. The idea being it keeps the wind on one side of the jib but keeps it from powering up. I wouldn't walk off too far, but its an idea.
The other would look at leaving the foot of the jib attached to the bridle, lowering the jib and flaking it, putting a sail tie around it and sheeting it hard. When you're ready to go, release the sail tie and hoist.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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QuoteThat said, I have considered rigging a bit of bungee to connect to the clew of the jib and then to the end of the front crossbar. The idea being it keeps the wind on one side of the jib but keeps it from powering up.

on anchor this will cause your boat to dance - occasionally violently

QuoteThe other would look at leaving the foot of the jib attached to the bridle, lowering the jib and flaking it, putting a sail tie around it and sheeting it hard. When you're ready to go, release the sail tie and hoist.

no need to sheet anything - just drop the halyard and secure it with a line or bungee
MN3
QuoteThat said, I have considered rigging a bit of bungee to connect to the clew of the jib and then to the end of the front crossbar. The idea being it keeps the wind on one side of the jib but keeps it from powering up.

on anchor this will cause your boat to dance - occasionally violently

QuoteThe other would look at leaving the foot of the jib attached to the bridle, lowering the jib and flaking it, putting a sail tie around it and sheeting it hard. When you're ready to go, release the sail tie and hoist.

no need to sheet anything - just drop the halyard and secure it with a line or bungee

I have never considered a beach cat on anchor. Is that a thing?
I only mentioned flaking and sheeting it hard to minimize the crinkling of the mylar. If not necessary, then it just got a lot easier.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--
Quote
I have never considered a beach cat on anchor. Is that a thing?

We anchor all the time
http://asnstudios.com/images/mmy.jpg
http://asnstudios.com/images/new-main.jpg

having an anchor onboard is huge for safety - unless racing with a chase boat i always have mine
extremely helpful in a capsize
QuoteI only mentioned flaking and sheeting it hard to minimize the crinkling of the mylar. If not necessary, then it just got a lot easier.

i now see what you mean about sheeting it so the clew has some tension on it - i agree that some moderate sheeting may be beneficial to keep it in place

the sail should basically flake itself as you lower the sail (since the tack and clew are still attached) it - but by all means - be neat about it and don't beat up your sails
MN3
Quote
I have never considered a beach cat on anchor. Is that a thing?

We anchor all the time
http://asnstudios.com/images/mmy.jpg
http://asnstudios.com/images/new-main.jpg

having an anchor onboard is huge for safety - unless racing with a chase boat i always have mine
extremely helpful in a capsize

I can see why you anchor. All those rocks icon_eek
We would typically just drag them up.
I know a few guys that keep small collapsible anchors onboard for beaching (passing ships create enough wake to float your beached cat and drag it out.) but I've never heard of them being used in a capsize. Can you elaborate?

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--
yes rocks, oysters, incoming tides, wakes, sanding off gelcoat and shifting winds are all reasons why to anchor

we island hop a lot around here (and beach it) - sometimes we stay for over an hour - that's enough time for the tide to come in and float your boat or to go out and leave you high and dry - which leads to more dragging/sanding. the occasional boat ghost sailing itself off a beach isn't unheard of eaither

as per in a capsize: several reasons to have an anchor:
lets assume there is decent wind ... deploying an anchor (that actually grabs) will stop the boat from drifting downwind. sometimes this can be very important (like when near a seawall, other boats, or just getting blown out to sea)

another huge plus is when you get the anchor to set, your bows will swing and stay into the wind - critical for a 200 lb human to right a 400 lb boat with a sail in the water

I have not seen good results from those collapsible anchors. they wont hold my 5.5 or 6.0 in a real blow
MN3yes rocks, oysters, incoming tides, wakes, sanding off gelcoat and shifting winds are all reasons why to anchor

we island hop a lot around here (and beach it) - sometimes we stay for over an hour - that's enough time for the tide to come in and float your boat or to go out and leave you high and dry - which leads to more dragging/sanding. the occasional boat ghost sailing itself off a beach isn't unheard of eaither

as per in a capsize: several reasons to have an anchor:
lets assume there is decent wind ... deploying an anchor (that actually grabs) will stop the boat from drifting downwind. sometimes this can be very important (like when near a seawall, other boats, or just getting blown out to sea)

another huge plus is when you get the anchor to set, your bows will swing and stay into the wind - critical for a 200 lb human to right a 400 lb boat with a sail in the water

I have not seen good results from those collapsible anchors. they wont hold my 5.5 or 6.0 in a real blow

How big of an anchor do you have and how much rode do you keep?

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
--
I can't imagine not having an a decent anchor. Its awesome to take a break lying bows to the wind in the lee of an island to take a break when I don't feel like beaching. Also the safety factor can't be dismissed either.

How does everyone tie off their anchor line? I wrap mine around my front crossbeam but that's not ideal. I would like to have a true anchor cleat to cleat off to. Have to be careful where you store it on board as well, at best it will pierce your tramp at worst it will pierce your body.
QuoteHow big of an anchor do you have and how much rode do you keep?

fortress FX-7 - light weight alum
https://fortressanchors.c…tress/#fortressselection

I have about 20' of rode - i extend this if i am camping/overnight anchoring incase of storms - and actually tie off an old halyard (60') to a tree when possible
QuoteHow does everyone tie off their anchor line? I wrap mine around my front crossbeam but that's not ideal. I would like to have a true anchor cleat to cleat off to. Have to be careful where you store it on board as well, at best it will pierce your tramp at worst it will pierce your body.

I use the holes in my bow tips from my spinnaker bridals - i can't recall how i reeve it when using the spin (i haven't used my spin in 2 years - since i had beam issues - i plan to put it back on soon)

It is important to have a bridal for your anchor or your boat will dance around a bunch

i store my anchor in my extra large tramp front pocket (carefully) and have never had it rip the tramp - but it is possible if careless - and it can scratch up the front beam if not careful - i usually put some non skid tape up there to protect the beam

i used to store it in a small tool bag that was secured to the tramp

i have a small plastic clip on my front beam area (tied to a hike-strap). when the anchor is in the tramp pocket this clip has the perfect length of line to achieve it's purpose, to grab all the slack in the anchor line and keep it from dragging / splashing
I'm a big fan of anchoring and I see that most of the associated problems have already been addressed. However I would like to comment on the jib wear and tear caused by excessive flogging. A much cheaper alternative to roller furling is to have a hanked on jib. It can be up and down in seconds, you'll never notice the difference in performance and it sure beats fooling with a 20 ft zipper!

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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.7
Sarasota
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shortyfoxI'm a big fan of anchoring and I see that most of the associated problems have already been addressed. However I would like to comment on the jib wear and tear caused by excessive flogging. A much cheaper alternative to roller furling is to have a hanked on jib. It can be up and down in seconds, you'll never notice the difference in performance and it sure beats fooling with a 20 ft zipper!

+1 I totally agree that flogging is terrible for the sail

I have no issues with hanked on jibs but converting a jib from a zip to a hank system after the fact has gotta cost a few bills -

i would put the money towards a furler personally as it is a valuable safety resource and the convenience factor is not that big a deal



Edited by MN3 on Jun 18, 2019 - 10:45 AM.
DogboyYou can wait until just before you’re ready to launch (i.e. everyone is geared up, boat is loaded) before hoisting the jib. Or you can hoist the jib, disconnect the blocks from the clew, manually wrap the jib around the forestay, and then tie the clew to keep the sail from un-spooling. When you’re ready to sail, un-wrap the jib and connect the blocks.

sm

+2

Even with my furling sail, I do this when I store the boat. I use a shackle that's easy to remove (not a quick disconnect) and wrap the sail and put a bungie ball around the clew.

As long as the waters not to deep for you to reach, this works great.

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Prindle 18
96734
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on several occasions I have shown up at the beach for sailing and seen more than 1 jib flappin in the wind - no one around - the little cleat on the beam isn't always up to the job of securing the jib in storms, etc

i used to secure my furling with a line (and a simple figure 8 knot) around the furled jib when i leave my cat overnight on the beach as a safety measure - now i simply tie a line through my furling turnbuckle ring and around my bridal wires .. same effect - although they are about equally hard to untie from the bow (when i forget to untie this on the beach) - make for some early excitment

Quote I use a shackle that's easy to remove (not a quick disconnect) and wrap the sail

I use a soft shackle for this connection -

https://i0.wp.com/tacticalrecoveryequipment.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Blue-1-e1543515089999.jpg?fit=600%2C400&ssl=1[



Edited by MN3 on Jun 18, 2019 - 04:48 PM.
I have a few more comments on taming a flogging jib. I bought a new Nacra 500 in '06. Used to go the hand furling route. Could only do it standing in shallow water and it was messy because of the short battens that are sewed into the leech. Had to unwrap the sail before attaching the jib sheets to the clew, if it was windy, hard to control alone and the possibility of losing a shackle. Use a captive one. After 2 years I had enough and went to a sailmaker to discuss furling vs hanks. Hanks were way cheaper. What I had neglected to realize was that the leech of the sail had to be modified as well. The short battens removed and new ones sewed in at an angle so the jib can be rolled up all the way. I sailed the little Nacra for 8 more years with no complaints. Not as good as a furler {used to sail a Hobie 18 with one} but you can still get your jib up and down quickly.

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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.7
Sarasota
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QuoteI have a few more comments on taming a flogging jib. I bought a new Nacra 500 in '06. Used to go the hand furling route. Could only do it standing in shallow water and it was messy because of the short battens that are sewed into the leech. Had to unwrap the sail before attaching the jib sheets to the clew, if it was windy, hard to control alone and the possibility of losing a shackle. Use a captive one. After 2 years I had enough and went to a sailmaker to discuss furling vs hanks. Hanks were way cheaper. What I had neglected to realize was that the leech of the sail had to be modified as well. The short battens removed and new ones sewed in at an angle so the jib can be rolled up all the way. I sailed the little Nacra for 8 more years with no complaints. Not as good as a furler {used to sail a Hobie 18 with one} but you can still get your jib up and down quickly.

+1
hanks on a g-cat are esp good - you can walk up there to drop it with the front tramp
MN3on several occasions I have shown up at the beach for sailing and seen more than 1 jib flappin in the wind - no one around - the little cleat on the beam isn't always up to the job of securing the jib in storms, etc


This is certainly true. I have a good furler cleat on my boat (clamcleat) and I still would not trust it 100% for overnight or long term storage. I always tie the free end of the furler line off to a nearby hiking strap with a few half hitches when the boat’s on the beach. For long term storage (i.e. away from the boat for days) I would tie a secondary line through the clew and around the furled sail. But at some point the minor inconvenience of just lowering and storing the sail begins to be outweighed by the potential risk of damage and wear from furler mishaps.

sm



Edited by Dogboy on Jun 20, 2019 - 05:24 PM.
For years I also tied a line through the clew. Actually, I left the line there all the time, it just trails while sailing.
https://www.thebeachcats.…a48bebc3348c1b821f59eb22
I keep my cats on modified Seadoo lifts, & no one is tall enough to reach the clew while standing in the water. I tried a 3’ stepladder that I left on the dock, but that got old real quick.
Fast forward I now have a 4” bit of spyder line tied to a snap on one end, the other attached to a4” pin, the same one I use to secure the mast to the ball when stepping mast. Insert the pin into a hole in the tang of the drum, then snap the clip onto a bridal wire. Takes 3 seconds, & the drum is locked.
I’ll get a photo tomorrow.



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 20, 2019 - 10:38 PM.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
Edchris177For years I also tied a line through the clew. Actually, I left the line there all the time, it just trails while sailing.
https://www.thebeachcats.…a48bebc3348c1b821f59eb22
I keep my cats on modified Seadoo lifts, & no one is tall enough to reach the clew while standing in the water. I tried a 3’ stepladder that I left on the dock, but that got old real quick.
Fast forward I now have a 4” bit of spyder line tied to a snap on one end, the other attached to a4” pin, the same one I use to secure the mast to the ball when stepping mast. Insert the pin into a hole in the tang of the drum, then snap the clip onto a bridal wire. Takes 3 seconds, & the drum is locked.
I’ll get a photo tomorrow.Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 20, 2019 - 10:38 PM.

no chance of a wind storm vibrating it out?
Quoteno chance of a wind storm vibrating it out?

If it comes out, my Cat, & probably the house are also gone!
The pin goes into the hole just above where the bridals attach to the drum. The clip goes on to one of the bridals. The line is shorter than the pin, therefore prevents the pin from coming all the way out. I invented this because with the Cat sitting on a lift, I cannot reach up to the clew to tie a safety line. I could stand on one hull. lean out & just reach it, but that was a precarious operation, & when i had the 10' wide Mystere, impossible. I also use it on the N5.7
https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=120205&g2_serialNumber=4
https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=131683&g2_serialNumber=4



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 22, 2019 - 12:26 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
Put a "snorkel" over it. The snorkle flogs pretty good in a strong wind but if it's made of sunbrella it's strong enough and, most importantly, protects it from the sun. The UV will kill the sail. icon_confused