Worrell 1000 Reunion

Can't believe no one is chiming in about the Worrell 1000. All they have on their website is scoring but they have lots of content on their Facebook page:
Website: https://worrell1000race.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Worrell1000

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Craig Van Eaton
West Palm Beach
Supercat 20
www.teamcyberspeed.com
www.sailseries.com
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it has been great coverage and exciting to watch for sure!

JW and his team are doing a fantastic job



Edited by MN3 on May 15, 2019 - 10:07 AM.
We went and hung out/helped out while they were here in Daytona. Awesome group of guys. I found the Texas team with all the adversity they went through early on to be inspirational. They stayed so positive and never thought of throwing in the towel. Glad we went and met all the teams and their ground crews.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500
DeLand, FL
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I saw the onboard footage of team Australia posted today or yesterday. I thought the F20 FCS was a foiling boat?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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They aren't racing the FCS version. The Nacra 20 carbon can be sailed in three configurations; c-boards with kickup rudders, full foiling (FCS) and "Evo", c-boards with FCS rudders.

The the j-boards and t-foil rudders aren't good for getting on and off the beach. The boards do not fully retract, so you can't run it up on the beach and the FCS rudders are daggerboard style and do not kick up if you hit something.

Just be careful what you post on the Worrell FB page... they'll block you if you post something that they don't like. I said, "the tracking isn't real time" and posted a screen shot highlighting the last refresh. Now I can't post comments or react to others posts.

Been a nice easy year weather wise so far.
will, you have the distinction of being the only person that was complained about by users of the facebook page, and the only person that was ultimately blocked from making further negative and mocking comments. cast it in whatever light you want, but i saw that you were given three days to settle down - instead you escalated. bummed me out.
john_williamswill, you have the distinction of being the only person that was complained about by users of the facebook page, and the only person that was ultimately blocked from making further negative and mocking comments. cast it in whatever light you want, but i saw that you were given three days to settle down - instead you escalated. bummed me out.


No matter how hard you work at putting these things on, there is always someone that.... well, as my southern cousins would say... bless their little heads.

Maybe next year this race will get some momentum.. Maybe even a west coast event...

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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hey john - there is momentum right now, for sure. the race will be run again in may of 2021. the OA struggled with the decision of when to go again - in the end they did not feel that less than 12 months would be enough for teams to get a serious program together. i was the race officer this year, but i am not on the OA. i think i can safely share that the discussion about what class to include in the future is quite spirited, and i hope they will announce something as soon as possible.
I wish they would have kept sailing north I was enjoying tracking their progress through each stage. I would love to partake in something like this but as long as I’m employed I don’t see it as an option. My opinion therefore may be null and void, but I think a open class would greatly boost participation.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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hi kevin - open class sounds good, but what boats do you think would come, and what boats do you think could make the trip? i see the nacra 6.0 in your sig block, but taking it as an example; great boat (i raced one, too), it did the event, but is now out of production for decades - no parts, no support, old boats.

i'm anxious to see the decision they make, for sure. i'm a realist, though - imo, parts have to be readily available, the platform has to be overbuilt and robust, and should not cost more than a luxury car. *ching*... two cents.



Edited by john_williams on May 20, 2019 - 09:38 PM.
John;
I was glad to see a C2 on the course, but also concerned that it was a bit rough on the boats. TCDYC had to do lots of repairs, though there was damage all around, with broken/bent gudgeons, lost rudder, damaged hulls, etc.
Do you feel the f18's are robust enough, or were there possibly hidden problems the team didn't realize at the start of the race?

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Brett
2012 Goodall C2 with 2014 Hulls (warranty)
1992 Hobie 18 w/ SX Wings (Sold)
Tucson, AZ
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hi brett - i absolutely think the F18 is robust enough. chirs' boat had some previous hull damage that he hadn't completely repaired. other than that, i think he had a number of lines on the boat that were well suited to buoy racing, but not the Worrell - he replaced a lot of that along the way. for example, he had a positive rotation system on 16mm blocks that were on like 2mm (smaller?) line - that stuff gave out quick and was quickly replaced with bigger line that wasn't fed through just-big-enough holes on the jib track. keep in mind that once he got through somewhere around tybee, he had no additional issues - the hull had been properly patched and rigging had been replaced. check out his facebook feed for a good day-by-day.
No parts, no support, old boats, 35k budget for new boat. Only one of those stopping people from signing up for worrell 1000. Else, I think the Hobie 18 is the boat you describe. Support, parts, robust.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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I see both sides of the discussion.
It was originally done on H16s against the prevailing winds in horrific conditions, so I'm not interested in hearing how F18 or Carbon 20 or any number of other boats aren't robust enough.
That said, I can understand that you can't just have any Joe Blow show up with his '81 H16 with enough epoxy injected into soft spots to make another boat, enter and race in the Worrell. There has to be more options than taking $20k+, $30k+ boats and putting them through what is widely considered to be absolute torture though. I mean just look at Cat in the Hat. Such a pretty, new boat, severely damaged in rather mild conditions.
F18 is more than capable and has the numbers, but are there enough people willing to subject their expensive toys to that environment?
I think unless they can find a way to allow more inexpensive boats to compete, they're going to continue to have participation problems unless they get back to heavily sponsored teams and all the crap that went along with that, which in my mind is what led to its decline in the first place. (I'm not a Worrell historian, someone will explain in detail what led to its decline, I'm sure)
I know the Great Texas 300 has The Dash, where they bring in anyone and everyone who wants to race for the last leg (~40 NM). The Dash always has a great turnout, so the desire is there. We just have to figure out how to include them and still make sure people are safe. (Whatever that means)

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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A perfect example to me is Ruff Riders in Texas. Two days, 65+ miles, run what you brung. They regularly saw 100+ boats. To my knowledge without major incident.
Admittedly, participation declined but I think my point still stands.

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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I'm glad to see the race is back, but more effort is going to be needed in the future to get the numbers up. I think the OA knows this, but the inevitable question is what are they going to do about it? Getting costs in line is step 1; sorry to say but this race is going to be on a spin boat, its just a matter of which one..next step is better marketing...see St. Barths Catacup, they have to turn entries away!!!
@ropewalker, all of the major F18 manufacturers have had seam issues on boats in the past (though none on boats built in the last 5 years that I am aware of). This was an older C2 and had done a lot of beach launches and landings with subsequent issues. This is not a race to come into half-assed, and people always question why I'm working on my boats, but its to ensure that I can go out and sail 100 miles with no or limited breakage.

This year was relatively benign so the boats got through relatively unscathed but personally I have a hard tim justifying running a new boat of any type up the coast for 10 days. Its a ton of wear and tear, and if you break a carbon rig that is a $7k+ cost...essentially the price of a good used F18.

I would prefer that the OA's mandate one boat, F18's, for the event. F20c's are cool and all and there are better than 50% odds that if that direction is chosen for 2021 I'll have a boat in a container but those decisions need to be made in the next month or so. Waiting until January 2021 to finalize the rules isn't going to work when you need to have an order in with Nacra 1 year ahead of time to guarantee delivery (yes, often they are much faster but I said guarantee), plus have time to sort out teething issues.



Edited by samc99us on May 21, 2019 - 10:26 AM.
sam, always appreciate your take on things. in this case, the exposure is there - 40,000 views last week and over 1,400 followers, worldwide. russia, south africa, australia, ireland, canada and on and on. the date is set, and there's a helpful countdown clock. more marketing by the OA? the word is out and writing it in different font won't make it louder. there is a plan in place for quarterly OA meetings and a steady drumbeat of meaningful content on social media. i'm not sure what else you expect the OA to do for you.

getting costs in line - the entry fee is the only thing the OA can control, and that's a very, very small part of the total campaign cost. it is an expensive race in time and treasure. again, not sure what else the OA can do for you there, beyond negotiating the best possible rates for hotels. if you can't (as you say) justify running your boat up onto the beach, the OA isn't going to be able to help you with that. it just isn't the race for you.

selection of the class or classes for the next edition isn't going to happen on your time scale (next month). there will be no substantial change in the current distribution of fleets in the US a month from now, which is what the OA is viewing as the necessary data to make a decision. i've encouraged them to make a decision as soon as possible, but they're being deliberate. i'm impressed - they're not caught up in the fever.

i've never been bashful about my opinion that F18 is the way to go. allows multiple manufacturers, brand loyalty, factory teams, level playing field, head-to-head scoring, reasonably priced boats and parts, and a robust, over-built platform. i have friends who strongly desire a 20-foot boat, but to a man, they haven't been on an F18 lately (if ever). look at the crew weight of the world champions over time and you'll see the trend - two big dudes. the development and increasing power of the platform and sailplan is what sent me to the F16 (where i'm blissfully happy to be).

folks chiming in and sending me notes about what the event needs to be or do in order to ensure their participation are, imo, just wasting electrons. here's the deal:

1. the race is much more expensive than probably any other cat event you've done. you can nibble around the edges of the cost, but that is a fact that cannot be altered in any fundamental way. if you're not rich (and some of you are), get a sponsor and give them fulfillment.

2. the race is two weeks on the water, weeks of preparation, and time off to get there and get home after. again, you can nibble around the edges, but if you're a working stiff like me, it takes a lot of vacation time.

3. the OA is about setting the conditions, providing the infrastructure, levelling the playing field - it took 18 months to get the 2019 event together. my role as PRO was a very visible but *very* small part of what went on to make it all possible. i don't care how long you think you will put into getting ready - the OA is spending way more time than you. i truly don't understand the attitude exhibited by a very few that the fleet is somehow owed something more.

if these three basic truths about the Worrell 1000 don't sit well with you, then it just isn't the race for you. no judgement - isn't a "good" or "bad" thing. judgement by potential participants is equally meaningless - "they'll kill it again," or "then i won't do it," or "then they won't get any boats." everyone has their opinion, including me. i'd suggest you watch the award ceremony - listen to the small fleet that attended when so many others were posting up or emailing ultimatums. any of those sailors (past and present) at awards sound like they're not doing it again? they had the right stuff - maybe you do, too. only one way to find out. the rest is just details.
JW - thanks again for all you have and do for the sport
john_williams
getting costs in line - the entry fee is the only thing the OA can control, and that's a very, very small part of the total campaign cost. it is an expensive race in time and treasure. again, not sure what else the OA can do for you there, beyond negotiating the best possible rates for hotels. if you can't (as you say) justify running your boat up onto the beach, the OA isn't going to be able to help you with that. it just isn't the race for you..


There was a thread on this forum several months ago, if I recall correctly, which included a fair amount of predicting and speculating on the cost of this event (participant cost).

Now that the event is over, are there any hard numbers to share from the teams that actually raced?

sm
I remember that thread. I don't know how much insight that would provide.
Do you count the time you took off? Do you count the damages? etc.
On top of how drastically different you could approach an event of this magnitude.
The guy who buys a F20C to do the event is going to have much more expense than a guy who brings an old Tiger (I assume that would be allowed since its F18).

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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I think it would offer a lot of insight, actually. Of course if someone just says $90k, maybe that doesn’t tell you much. But something like $10k hotels, $5k food, $1k gas, $5k spare parts...etc.

The teams that have successfully done this have obviously done the homework and any real data that they could provide is a lot more valuable than speculation or guessing from the peanut gallery.

sm
+1
john_williamswill, you have the distinction of being the only person that was complained about by users of the facebook page, and the only person that was ultimately blocked from making further negative and mocking comments. cast it in whatever light you want, but i saw that you were given three days to settle down - instead you escalated. bummed me out.


John, I'm looking for the "negative mocking comments". In total, I think I made five posts...
- Someone asked how many boats, I was the third person to respond and simply said, "three boats". Someone else posted, "that's lame"
- I said verbatim, "You can't trust the tracking; it isn't real time. Current data shows that Rod's tracker updated 40 minutes ago and Larry's 19 minutes ago" and then posted a screenshot with the update times highlighted. Somebody else responded, "tracking is junk..."
- Responded in jest to a picture of an ugly knot "I blame the line, Robline Dingy Control is junk...". It is, that stuff nearly got me separated from the boat in 40+ and failed in every use case that we tried it in.
- Asked about the hull layup when Larry's boat was being repaired... I don't know how thick the core is, do you?

I'm also curious about, "given three days to settle down", was I given some kind of warning for posting "inappropriate" comments? Did you warn the people that posted, "tracking is worthless" or, "I don't know what is worse, the amount of entries or the coverage"? Those comments didn't come from me. I also doubt that you were, "bummed out" b/c I know you better than that... there's only one thing that bummed you out during the race...

I guess having Chuck berate a member of our team on the beach and run him down to another team was ok. Our team was called "scared" in a video; insulting, but laughable. My skipper receiving a nasty text from an organizer because of hearsay from your anonymous "reliable source" after we had personally contacted six international and four US teams with offers of assistance trying to get them into the race. How about your treatment of Brian's sister-in-law on the beach when she made cookies and brought them give to the sailors? There wasn't a team that wanted this race to succeed more than we did; defending 2x champion and current course record holder, we wanted a real race.

If you want to quote me regarding running the boat up on the beach, at least do it right. We didn't race for a number of reasons; our decision was made five weeks before the start when there were two valid entries outside of our team. We weren't racing Chris b/c he was on an F18; a mismatched two boat event doesn't make for much of a "race" and that's what we watched happen. Don't try to tell us like Chuck did that you kept the Aussies a secret; we know that boat was offered to another big name sailor less than a week before he was announced.

Would you have burned two weeks of vacation, ~$15k in hotel, food, fuel and flights for that? Honestly, that's cheap compared to what we had already spent; two boats, a container from Europe, two sets of curved boards and bearings, three sets of rudders, spare spin pole, boom, and other parts. Should I tell you what that cost? So, no, why would anyone throw more money down that hole on a "spirit quest" when you have nothing to prove or gain?

We worked hard to prepare; I designed an adapter to fit the standard rudders to an FCS boat, but it was deemed illegal. Nacra later decided to produce new gudgeons and promised them in time for the race, but they arrived three days after the start. We weren't going to sail the course, spend more money, drill unnecessary holes in the boat and abuse it by running it up on the beach just for the sake of being there. By the time the Aussies were announced, we had pulled the plug, missed preparation deadlines and knew that we wouldn't have the parts we needed.
No slight intended, IMHO Armchair Quarterbacks often have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight post event, however possibly are ignorant to the OA’s guidelines and principle mandates. Bottom line is this has always been an elitist event in every aspect; time, money, physically, etc......Those who are capable of meeting these elements will usually manage to start the race whichever platform is used. If we look back and reviewed past events and did a hot-wash on lessons learned and best practices, I think we’d see a few common denominators throughout the event.

I might be way off base in my opinion which I’m basing on firsthand witnessing at two checkpoints on 3 different years. This epic event is not for the 99% of us sailors, nor should it be. To make it more achievable to compete could most likely have detrimental outcomes and overall dilute the event. This takes a special breed of sailor whom has abilities and resources above and beyond most of the community. Hats off to all who participate and the OA’s courage and leadership. N.S

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Todd

Virginia
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For anyone thinking the W1000 is for them, we have the Florida 300 to have a trial run, or at least get off the armchair icon_smile

I was there for the Miami/Hollywood prep day with my kids -- we are keen sailors -- and met all the teams. Great time. I'm also sad that Will and his skipper couldn't make the start line, after obviously investing a lot into it.

Hopefully the next edition will give folks more time to prep, and reduce some of the prep/deadline stress.

Between now and then, there's a bunch of long distance races...
martin, you make a good point - the Worrell is by invitation, and a team that doesn't have some distance racing experience is unlikely to have their entry accepted. folks have time to register and compete in a few races if they want to polish bona fides.

todd, i think your 99% estimate might be a little high, but your larger point is spot on, imo. any sort of distance racing is a challenge. two weeks of it in whatever weather and conditions you're dealt is a special kind of hurt. note that i've never sailed it - i enjoy distance racing, but i rely on the fact that if the forecast looks bad, i don't have to push off the beach.
tsteinNo slight intended, IMHO Armchair Quarterbacks often have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight post event, however possibly are ignorant to the OA’s guidelines and principle mandates. Bottom line is this has always been an elitist event in every aspect; time, money, physically, etc......Those who are capable of meeting these elements will usually manage to start the race whichever platform is used. If we look back and reviewed past events and did a hot-wash on lessons learned and best practices, I think we’d see a few common denominators throughout the event.

I might be way off base in my opinion which I’m basing on firsthand witnessing at two checkpoints on 3 different years. This epic event is not for the 99% of us sailors, nor should it be. To make it more achievable to compete could most likely have detrimental outcomes and overall dilute the event. This takes a special breed of sailor whom has abilities and resources above and beyond most of the community. Hats off to all who participate and the OA’s courage and leadership. N.S


Was the Worrell always by invitation?

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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badfishWas the Worrell always by invitation?


They use the term, "invitation" to essentially allow them to approve or deny an entry. If you don't have the qualifications and might be a danger to yourself or others, they don't have to let you in.

I'd have to go check my old copy of the race docs, but I think it was.



Edited by wlrottge on May 22, 2019 - 04:15 PM.
From the 2003 rules:

Quote11 INVITATIONAL EVENT

The Worrell 1000 is a private, invitational event. As such, the
management reserves the right to accept or refuse entry and/or
participation to anyone for any reason. Sailors who wish to participate
should have extensive sailing experience and proven ability and
be prepared to submit a detailed sailing resume to be considered for
entry.




Edited by wlrottge on May 22, 2019 - 04:21 PM.
wlrottge
badfishWas the Worrell always by invitation?


They use the term, "invitation" to essentially allow them to approve or deny an entry. If you don't have the qualifications and might be a danger to yourself or others, they don't have to let you in.

I'd have to go check my old copy of the race docs, but I think it was.Edited by wlrottge on May 22, 2019 - 04:15 PM.


I figured as much. Not really "invitational" as much as "selective".
Not that I disagree with the sentiment. I've seen a few people that shouldn't be on the line at certain regattas and/or during certain conditions. Myself included icon_biggrin

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Joshua

Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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not sure if the terminology has been consistent throughout the history of the event - i certainly saw mike worrell allow teams to race that were wholly unknown or completely new to cat sailing. the new OA is incredibly concerned about risk as evidenced by the in-depth waivers teams and race volunteers signed this year, so i get that an early step in mitigating that risk is to only accept entries from teams with experience. there will be more entries for the next event (easy prediction) and it would be consistent with the OA's view of risk management if some of those entries don't meet their criteria for past experience and ability.
Some years the bar was set a little lower than others. In 2003 after the W1000 cancelation and the Tybee 500 was created, the Great Texas 300 was also born. Since we had planned on doing the W1000, and had a sponsor supplied RV for 30 days, when we finished the T500, we turned west and drove to Padre Island. There was another team that was scheduled to do the W1000, but they were counting on the chartered 18HT for the event. So they drug an old Nacra 5.8 out from behind the barn and showed up in Texas with a leaky boat and only one dagger board (they figured that they only needed one board since it was supposed to be an off wind run all the way). Everyone was WTF, but the GT300 organizers assumed that since they were entered in the W1000, then they must have been "experienced ocean racers". On day one, they finished hours behind the fleet because they kept having to beach the boat and bail it out. On day 2, we gave them a 1 or 2 hour head start, and they still finished hours after the fleet. On day 3, they didn't make it the beach in time and sank. They swam ashore, a surf fisherman picked them up and transported them to the nearest pay phone. Their ground crew was dispatched to collect them, and I think that was the last we saw of them. Not sure they made it back home, the van they were living in wasn't in any better shape than their boat...
wlrottge We worked hard to prepare; I designed an adapter to fit the standard rudders to an FCS boat, but it was deemed illegal. Nacra later decided to produce new gudgeons and promised them in time for the race, but they arrived three days after the start. We weren't going to sail the course, spend more money, drill unnecessary holes in the boat and abuse it by running it up on the beach just for the sake of being there. By the time the Aussies were announced, we had pulled the plug, missed preparation deadlines and knew that we wouldn't have the parts we needed.


Sucks that you were not able to do the race, but it sounds like you made the right decision, and sad you got slammed for it..

I know it has been asked here, and if you don't mind sharing, what sort of checkbook does one need to compete in a race like this.. ballpark figure will work..

Anyway, hope you can do it next year.. the Worrell is not on my bucket list, but I would the to take a shot at the Texel...

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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JohnESsad you got slammed for it..


neither will nor brian were "slammed" for pulling out of the race. any criticism they received, public or private, was not related to their decision. it doesn't do anyone any good to air it out, but i won't sit by for mischaracterization or a rewrite of what went down. far better to look forward, imo.
john_williams
JohnESsad you got slammed for it..


neither will nor brian were "slammed" for pulling out of the race. any criticism they received, public or private, was not related to their decision. it doesn't do anyone any good to air it out, but i won't sit by for mischaracterization or a rewrite of what went down. far better to look forward, imo.


No one here would have been none the wiser on this if you didn't bring it up... is that a sign of moving forward?

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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not so, john. will brought it up and you apparently bought it. it needed to be corrected.
QuoteSome years the bar was set a little lower than others. In 2003 after the W1000 cancelation and the Tybee 500 was created, the Great Texas 300 was also born. Since we had planned on doing the W1000, and had a sponsor supplied RV for 30 days, when we finished the T500, we turned west and drove to Padre Island. There was another team that was scheduled to do the W1000, but they were counting on the chartered 18HT for the event. So they drug an old Nacra 5.8 out from behind the barn and showed up in Texas with a leaky boat and only one dagger board (they figured that they only needed one board since it was supposed to be an off wind run all the way). Everyone was WTF, but the GT300 organizers assumed that since they were entered in the W1000, then they must have been "experienced ocean racers". On day one, they finished hours behind the fleet because they kept having to beach the boat and bail it out. On day 2, we gave them a 1 or 2 hour head start, and they still finished hours after the fleet. On day 3, they didn't make it the beach in time and sank. They swam ashore, a surf fisherman picked them up and transported them to the nearest pay phone. Their ground crew was dispatched to collect them, and I think that was the last we saw of them. Not sure they made it back home, the van they were living in wasn't in any better shape than their boat...


mischuge
crazy but believable
john_williamsnot so, john. will brought it up and you apparently bought it. it needed to be corrected.


Pint taken and I stand corrected.. Lets move on

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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