Calling out all Prindle owners - Hull replacements?

Prindle sailors - This may have come up as a topic in the past but I would think there would be plenty of desire for a company to find the old existing prindle XX molds and start taking orders. I for one would be on the top of that list. Does anyone know what happened to the original molds - who has them and what may have happened to them? There has got to be a way and enough desire out here to make this a profitable endeavor for someone. Anyone know if you can make a reverse mold from an existing hull? There has got to be a way to create a new set of Hulls. And no - I don't want to buy an another boat for parts - I want a new set.
As I understand it molds were cut up 10 years ago. Check with Ron Lane (Fastlane) in SanDiego for verification. You are not only one who would want new hulls, but I don't think market is there for cost of new hulls. Pete
I think the only bet would be to actually create a mold of your hulls and make your own

--
Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
'87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
'74 sunfish "1fish"
--
I own an 86 19..what a fantastic boat, Its to bad about the molds. I love my Prindle.
Hulls are the cheap bit if you can get them built in eastern europe, I'd say $5-$6k for a pair. You're looking at close to $20k for the tooling. This is on an 18 footer but similar math works out for the 16 foot boats.

The reality is the rest of the hardware on a modern boat drives the price up quickly, and the other reality is Nacra have modern alternatives to the Prindle series in production with the Nacra 500 and Nacra 570.

The final reality is for the same money you can get into some really nice used race boats like Nacra Inter 20's, F18's and a good number of Hobie 16's. These are certainly compromises and I get that the boardless Prindle 16 and 18 are really good boats for off the beach work, but they are cheap because they are 30+ years old.
To gauge interest - please indicate if you would be interested in a new set of Prindle Hulls. Please state the size and quantity. I'm trying to see if there would be enough demand to seriously consider having someone re-manufacture the Molds. Simply reply to this thread. Thanks!



Edited by mason1114 on Sep 10, 2018 - 11:21 AM.
I'd want a set of 19 hulls,
Hobie did it for the 18's back in 09 or so.
Sam made some good points about used boats for the same price as a set of hulls though.
But what I like about the 19 is the rotating centerboards.
Hobie was getting 6950.00 for a set of 18 hulls & they wanted 10 comittments before going forward



Edited by carl2 on Sep 10, 2018 - 01:17 PM.
If the molds are cut up this isn't really feasible, and I'm pretty inclined to believe that is the case as Nacra moved the valuable tooling offshore and ditched the Prindle/old Nacra lineup in 09'-10' with the Euro takeover.

I say all that as the cost of tooling far exceeds the cost of a pair of hulls, you have no laminate schedule and are working with a shop that hasn't built these before. All of that equals high risk and little reward. Still if you want to pursue it I can put you in touch with the most qualified shop in the U.S, just send me a PM.

Carl2, the 19 is a shorter, narrower beamed Tornado effectively. You may consider tracking down a Marstrom T, excellent models can be had in the $10k range and these boats were built right (A LOT better than the Prindle, S-glass nomex hulls built in an Autoclave by an aerospace level composites house in Sweden). Not necessarily the best boat to run up the beach but she can take it and if you have mast up storage there is little out there that will out perform her. My last sail on one we were sitting on the weather hull eating sandwiches doing 18 kts + close reaching to our delivery destination.
Samc

Thanks for the reply and words of advice. I'm actual trying to speak with Sterling Santley one of the owners of the original Surfglass company that manufactures the Prindles. I hope to pick find out more about their old manufacturing process. Your right in that it would be a costly endeavor - Anyhow - i'll see were this takes me - probably back to dreaming but I want to give it a try and see what sort of demand would be out there. The problem is, can we produce a set of hulls that are reasonably priced that folks would buy and more importantly - afford. If it's the cost of a new boat - then the effort is useless...but if we can figure out a way to produce them at a reasonable price - then we may have something here.
Not necessarily trying to throw more negativity on your project (more like reality, I hope), but I think the example of the Hobie 18 hulls from a few years back really tells the tale...

Hobie required a commitment of 10 buyers for each pair of hulls. My recollection is that they got 8 commitments but agreed to do the run anyway (by commitment, a $2,000 deposit). I believe after they did the run, even more folks backed out of the deal (and there may still be a new set available in the US 5-10 years later or some may have stayed in Australia, where they were built). It was a move that almost certainly hurt Hobie financially. Below is a quote from the Hobie forum by Matt Miller of Hobie Cat regarding the Hobie 18 hull project:

"The last run of Hobie 18 hulls came from our Australian factory. Not sure if they still have molds, but that exercise was not successful. We will not do it again. The cost is just too high to fix up an old rig. Better off buying a current production model of some kind. If we started building 18s again... just a guess, but if we did some volume in sales / production they would be $18,000 or so. We don't have that volume is sales to even order the aluminum and special parts at this point."

Lot's of people will talk the talk, but when it comes time to pony up the cash, most will run away. There has been no significant change in technology that is going to allow you to build the hulls cheaply, especially if there is currently no tooling in existence (i.e., if there was a market and hulls could be made without losing money, the OEM would still be building them). So cost of hulls is going to be in line with that of modern FRP hulls. You are up against a market that is totally flooded with decent used boats, so most that are interested in an older design will just rehab an old boat.

sm
Dogboy hit the nail on the head. For reference I can get an eXploder Scorpion F18 landed in the U.S for ~$20k less sails and beach wheels, or about $25k out the door. That is a hell of a lot more boat than a Hobie 18 or Prindle 18 (even an 18-2) for not that much more money. Self tacker, wingmast, modern square top sail, modern spinnaker, latest daggerboard and rudder design...all of that adds up to a package that is 30-40% faster around the track, plus easier to manage in certain conditions with the right crew.

For a decent Prindle 16 comparison, a new Hobie 16 is about $11,500. That what you would be competing with. Folks love all these boats because good used ones can be had for $1500-$3000. Asking them to triple their boat budget is hard sell.
samc99usDogboy hit the nail on the head. For reference I can get an eXploder Scorpion F18 landed in the U.S for ~$20k less sails and beach wheels, or about $25k out the door. That is a hell of a lot more boat than a Hobie 18 or Prindle 18 (even an 18-2) for not that much more money. Self tacker, wingmast, modern square top sail, modern spinnaker, latest daggerboard and rudder design...all of that adds up to a package that is 30-40% faster around the track, plus easier to manage in certain conditions with the right crew.


Those are the two key words... A Prindle 16,18 and/or 18-2 can easily be managed by one person in a good blow... And they are both very versatile all around boats for family and friend sailing...

But you are right with the Nacra 500 and 570.... they do fill this void.

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--
Nice used Viper F16 can be had these days for $6-7k. Spinnaker rocket. Good times we live in....



Edited by traphappy on Sep 11, 2018 - 04:22 PM.
Points all well made. You guys are good!! and honest. I guess I am just stubborn - it's the Texas blood in me I guess. I just can't seem to give up the dream of owning a pair of new Prindle Hulls!!. The old boats are such a joy to sail. I'll keep you posted on my efforts - all though I know they are probably in vain. Just tired of injecting soft spots or searching craigs lists for a decent Prindle within 400 miles of my home. I already drove from here to New Mexico to obtain the one I have. Seem to be harder and harder to find.
its a real pipe dream, if you want a prindle 19 replacement, you can get a hold of a Hurricane 5.9 in Europe for not a lot of doe and it wouldnt be much more to ship it over here, good part of that boat is it truly is a scaled down tornado with tornado parts. That being said, i would love to have an extra set of hulls for my 19 if the worst ever happened, but the problem is it would cost more than the boat is worth

--
Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
'87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
'74 sunfish "1fish"
--
cholley12its a real pipe dream, if you want a prindle 19 replacement, you can get a hold of a Hurricane 5.9 in Europe for not a lot of doe and it wouldnt be much more to ship it over here, good part of that boat is it truly is a scaled down tornado with tornado parts. That being said, i would love to have an extra set of hulls for my 19 if the worst ever happened, but the problem is it would cost more than the boat is worth

just buy a mystere :)
MN3
cholley12its a real pipe dream, if you want a prindle 19 replacement, you can get a hold of a Hurricane 5.9 in Europe for not a lot of doe and it wouldnt be much more to ship it over here, good part of that boat is it truly is a scaled down tornado with tornado parts. That being said, i would love to have an extra set of hulls for my 19 if the worst ever happened, but the problem is it would cost more than the boat is worth

just buy a mystere :)



MN3
cholley12its a real pipe dream, if you want a prindle 19 replacement, you can get a hold of a Hurricane 5.9 in Europe for not a lot of doe and it wouldnt be much more to ship it over here, good part of that boat is it truly is a scaled down tornado with tornado parts. That being said, i would love to have an extra set of hulls for my 19 if the worst ever happened, but the problem is it would cost more than the boat is worth

just buy a mystere :)


Na....ill just buy a tornado for my next one

--
Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
'87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
'74 sunfish "1fish"
--
cholley12Na....ill just buy a tornado for my next one


you can't buy new t hulls
you can buy a new mystere

(and mystere's were designed by Reg White, originally Tornado trainers, and don't have 10' beams to deal w)

ymmv



Edited by MN3 on Sep 19, 2018 - 11:17 AM.
Length: 6.0m (20ft.)

Width: 3.05m (10ft.)

Mainsail area: 21m²

Jib area: 5m

Gennaker surface: 24m²

Weight: 190kg (425lbs)

Mast height: 10.36m (34ft.)

Construction: Fiberglass / foam sandwich (epoxy / vinylester)

Capacity: 1-4 people

Designeur D. Bouchard and Yannick Yves Sansoucy
carl2
Width: 3.05m (10ft.)

Ahh yes, i forgot they are only producing the XL for the 6.0
the older 6.0's came in 8.5 or 10' versions
The 17 is 8.5, but I need a rich benefactor

Length: 5.25m (17.2ft.)

Width: 2.6m (8.5ft.)

Main sail area: 17m²

Jib surface: 4m²

Gennaker surface (optional): 19-21m²

Weight: 159kg (350lbs)

Mast height: 9m (29.5ft.)

Construction: Fiberglass / foam sandwich (vinylester resin)

Capacity: 1-3 people

Vrsion SPOR
Centerboard

Pentex Main and jib

Auto tacking jib

Gennaker on continous furler



Price: 28 995$ +tx



Edited by carl2 on Sep 19, 2018 - 12:47 PM.
MN3you can't buy new t hulls

I know where a set of Tornado molds live... anything is possible. How much money have you?

Randii
randii
MN3you can't buy new t hulls

I know where a set of Tornado molds live... anything is possible. How much money have you?

Randii

Haha, i have 4 sound hulls currently ... not in the market for hulls
(esp from another type of cat)
MN3

you can't buy new t hulls


Yes you can.... Mastrom will gladly do a special order... you may pay an arm and a leg and it may take a while..... but......

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--
MN3
cholley12Na....ill just buy a tornado for my next one


you can't buy new t hulls
you can buy a new mystere

(and mystere's were designed by Reg White, originally Tornado trainers, and don't have 10' beams to deal w)

ymmvEdited by MN3 on Sep 19, 2018 - 11:17 AM.


Very true, but the Mysteres never did well here. I really like the design, but not impressed with results.

Regarding the hull molds, I wouldn't do it. I've raced a Prindle 19 or 18-2 since 1990. I have never been impressed with the lack of buoyancy in the bows. The Tornado has a lot better volume up front. An idea would be to make a Tornado 8-1/2' wide. Stick double traps on it and go have fun. The lack of flaps on the P's is annoying. I originally bought a P-19 because I could build my own sails and the class shift was going from the 5.8 to the 19. I think that if someone loved the 19 or 18-2 enough to build hulls, just buy another boat and keep for spares.

--
Scott

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
[quote=texastuma][quote=MN3]
cholley12 Very true, but the Mysteres never did well here. I really like the design, but not impressed with results.


we must be seeking different results :)
http://asnstudios.com/images/zack.jpg

http://asnstudios.com/images/wing-fly.jpg
(pics are my buddy zack)

if you're talking fleet racing ... they had their day in the 90's... and haven't been competitive since
but for an all around fast & fun cat ... it's won me over



Edited by MN3 on Sep 20, 2018 - 06:15 PM.
texastuma

I have never been impressed with the lack of buoyancy in the bows.


I sort of disagree with this on the 18-2.... There are two boats I really had to work at getting them pitch-pole the 18-2 was on of them... I am on my third one now.... the other was a NACRA 5.8NA with two overweight slobs (me being one of them icon_lol ) literately siting forward of the main/front beam, block to block on a screaming beam reach into the face of a wave....

AAMOF, to really get the 18-2 going I have found putting the weight of the skipper forward of the shroud and the crew straddling and/or forward of the main beam seems to be it's sweet spot for the 18-2.... (Darn it... I just reveled one of my race secrets....)



Edited by JohnES on Sep 20, 2018 - 06:30 PM.

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--
Other than catastrophic damage, or complete foam deterioration, a good glass shop can make a hull almost as good as new, maybe a little extra weight but nothing that can be a deal breaker. People would normally balk at the idea of doing a high $$$ glass\gel coat job on a Prindle 18, but you like what you like. I did it on my Gcat 5.7 and couldn't be happier.
JohnES
texastuma

I have never been impressed with the lack of buoyancy in the bows.


I sort of disagree with this on the 18-2.... There are two boats I really had to work at getting them pitch-pole the 18-2 was on of them... I am on my third one now.... the other was a NACRA 5.8NA with two overweight slobs (me being one of them icon_lol ) literately siting forward of the main/front beam, block to block on a screaming beam reach into the face of a wave....

AAMOF, to really get the 18-2 going I have found putting the weight of the skipper forward of the shroud and the crew straddling and/or forward of the main beam seems to be it's sweet spot for the 18-2.... (Darn it... I just reveled one of my race secrets....)Edited by JohnES on Sep 20, 2018 - 06:30 PM.


I agree on the Nacra. I had 2 5.8's and raced a 6.0. Have a friend who had a 5.2 and we would be double trapped on a reach, both run forward and see how much mud we get on the bows. Clear Lake is about 4-6' deep where we were sailing. We usually got mud up to the bridle. I'm running a modified 18-2 now. In winds under 15-18, I'll sit shroud-ish with going forward as far as I can as the wind decreases. But, in wind >20 knots, I could easily pitch the 18-2 off the wind. She gets very squirrely in 25+ knot wind. I have to work the helm a lot to not trip over the backside of waves. The worst I have done on this one is stick it vertical in 33 knots of wind. Being 10' wide, capsizing is not an option. The flat decks are not forgiving at all.

--
Scott

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
[quote=MN3][quote=texastuma]
MN3
cholley12 Very true, but the Mysteres never did well here. I really like the design, but not impressed with results.


we must be seeking different results :)
http://asnstudios.com/images/zack.jpg

http://asnstudios.com/images/wing-fly.jpg
(pics are my buddy zack)

if you're talking fleet racing ... they had their day in the 90's... and haven't been competitive since
but for an all around fast & fun cat ... it's won me overEdited by MN3 on Sep 20, 2018 - 06:15 PM.


We only had one boat here, and I do not recall their experience. I would still like to sail one, like I said, I have been very impressed with the design.

--
Scott

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
QuoteWe only had one boat here, and I do not recall their experience. I would still like to sail one, like I said, I have been very impressed with the design.

in our very unregulated local races the mystere 6.0 was competitive in (portsmith) distance racing with the nacra 6.0 when skippered well. of course portsmith distance racing is a bit of an oxymoron as portsmith racing was developed for racing around marks - not distance racing . but that's how they roll around here

as a non racer - it has everything i want. lots of volume, spin, big tramp area (comparatively) and centerboards

so nice i've bought 3 of them so far
In San Diego, 1991 Prindle 19 Hulls, Tramp, Dagger Boards, etc available at a great value



https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/510262843408360
In San Diego, 1991 Prindle 19 Hulls, Tramp, Dagger Boards, etc available at a great value
jalexOther than catastrophic damage, or complete foam deterioration, a good glass shop can make a hull almost as good as new, maybe a little extra weight but nothing that can be a deal breaker. People would normally balk at the idea of doing a high $$$ glass\gel coat job on a Prindle 18, but you like what you like. I did it on my Gcat 5.7 and couldn't be happier.

Can you share where you got the glass work done?

--
G-Cat 5.7
Sarasota
--
1991 19' Prindle Hull, Trampoline, Mast, Boom, Dagger Boards and Accessories available in San Diego
1991 19ft Prindel Hulls, Tramp, Mast, Boom,etc avail in San Diego
mason1114Points all well made. You guys are good!! and honest. I guess I am just stubborn - it's the Texas blood in me I guess. I just can't seem to give up the dream of owning a pair of new Prindle Hulls!!. The old boats are such a joy to sail. I'll keep you posted on my efforts - all though I know they are probably in vain. Just tired of injecting soft spots or searching craigs lists for a decent Prindle within 400 miles of my home. I already drove from here to New Mexico to obtain the one I have. Seem to be harder and harder to find.


I understand what you are saying about trying to keep a good boat going; I have owned and raced a P-19 and modified 18-2 since 1989. I have gotten to know the boats very well. My biggest issue with the Prindles is lack of bow buoyancy. I tend to push the boats very hard and used to race a N5.8 and N6.0. One thing I had thought about is reskinning the boat with carbon vacuum bagging. On soft spots, you can reskin that area. But, for the most part with these boats, we somewhat settle for a boat within our budget. I have refinished a wooden Tornado and have become very spoiled with how the Nader performs. The problem (and benefit) with the Nader is the beam. My 18-2 is modified where it is a 10' wide P18-2, it's not normal....

--
Scott

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
Quote(and mystere's were designed by Reg White, originally Tornado trainers, and don't have 10' beams to deal w)

QuoteAhh yes, i forgot they are only producing the XL for the 6.0
the older 6.0's came in 8.5 or 10' versions

My Mystere 6.0XL came with two sets of beams, & two tramps. It could be setup with either 8’ or 10’ beam. I only ran it at 10’, (actually 14’ with the wings). If I was a couple decades younger, I’d still have that boat. Man, we just walked away from H17’s, A cats, & everything else on the lake...all while sitting comfortably on the wings, with a cold one in hand. It went through rough seas like a Laser on smooth water.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--