Just a reminder to watch out for criminal scammers when you place an ad on the classifieds.

The classifieds are great and very active, tons of catamaran boats and parts get sold there.

It's easy to get excited when you've placed an ad and get that great "contact seller" email enquiring about your item. If you don't place a lot of online ads you might not recognize the signs that you are being roped into a scam.

The initial email is almost always strangely formal and specific.

Here's a real example that was just reported.

Quote

Dear username:
Ad Title: 2010 Weta #357 For Sale

From: rayhou

I am interested in buying your 2010 Weta #357 and would like to receive additional information about it and pictures if available, i would like to pay with PayPal.

Regards.

Link to your ad:
https://www.TheBeachcats.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=15807

Notice two things,

• The way the scammer matches the "your 2010 Weta #357" with the ad title, who does that? Real initial enquiries are more casual.
  
  
• They say they want to Buy and how they want to pay, without asking any questions about the item itself. Real buyers have specific questions about the item even if they really do want to buy it now, and payment isn't the first thing mentioned.
  

If you end up answering a contact email that is a scammer because you weren't quite sure and it might be legit, the next email will tell the tale. They will be more interested in explaining why they can't meet in person or talk on the phone and there will be some fishy stuff about payment. here's the real followup email to the Weta contact.

Quote

Good to hear back from you, i work with Baker Hughes Process and Pipeline Services (offshore oil and gas platforms) at this moment i am presently working offshore i wont be able to check the boat am buying this for my brother as a surprise gift so am willing to offer you the amount you requested, sometimes access to regular emails and phone calls are very poor in offshore due to inefficiency of phone and internet connections, more so we are often constrain from accessing the internet or making phone calls, i insisted on PayPal because i don't have access to my bank account online and i don't have internet banking too, but i can pay from my PayPal account, you don't need to bother yourself about the shipment because i have a pick-up agent that will come for the pick-up and they will also determine and secure the shipment, get back to me with your PayPal email address so that i can make the payment, i will also need your full name and phone number.

Basically complete double-talk BS with nothing about the boat or part they supposedly want to buy.

If you continue after this, the next step in the scam is some form of request that you "help them out" by letting them pay you more than you ask to cover "expenses" and you can refund the difference later, they will trust you.

Hope that helps someone avoid contact with these a$$holes. It's an unfortunate part of any online advertising.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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If anyone has something to add to help spot scammers, please share here.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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I think you've laid down the main tell-tales. Not meeting in person, odd payment arrangements, little interest in the object being sold...

I got the same response to a boat for sale ad yesterday, identical second message. I was going to message you to the tactic, but you beat me to it..

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John

Nacra 5.0
CT
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Went thru exactly what was explained about but with a car not a boat. It was.... "I'll have movers pick it up and I will send you a certified cheque." I got the cheque took it to my bank and it was fraudulent. I then went to police station and reported it. The police told me to discontinue contact with the buyer and to avoid the temptation of being nasty thru email or texting. I did what they told me to do, and all went well. Now, if I'm selling anything, I can spot the scammer emails in a second. Be cautious, don't forward and personal info and make up something to discontinue conversations in a positive way.

I only accept cash and meet buyer in a public neutral place when I can... And trust your instincts!

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Frank
Prindle 15/Hobie 16/Hobie 14T
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Latest scammer is
barr.holyizi81
they have been banned but contacted a lot of ads.

If you have already emailed this scammer I'd advise having no more contact.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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I've dealt with a few of these guys over the years for things other than boats. The first thing you have to keep in mind is that they're not interested in whatever it is you're selling - that's why they don't ask any questions about it. You may think that they're trying to scam you out of your boat, but they're not, because they have no use for it and don't need the extra hassle of picking it up, moving it, trying to resell it, etc., and the attendant risk of getting busted while doing so. They're after one thing, and one thing only: Your money, and from the greatest distance possible. So there's always going to be some hook that involves them overpaying you (for some complicated reason) and having you send the excess back (after which, of course, you find that the original payment was bogus and you're out what you sent), or you covering some "expense" that they'll theoretically reimburse you for, or similar.

Also, hallmarks of these communications are the bad grammar, broken English, and odd inconsistencies in their story. This, interestingly, may be intentional (according to some analyses I've read), the logic being that if you're prepared to ignore those things, it indicates to them that you're an easier mark than otherwise.

If you've got time on your hands you can always entertain yourself by stringing them out as long as possible with your own complicated stories (one I spun involved a severe snowstorm and a dead horse - I dragged that guy out for months). But if all you want to do is get rid of them, the word "mugu" is useful.

[edit]

If you're interested in a glimpse into the scammers' mentality, I recommend Will Ferguson's 2012 book "419". It's fiction, but well-researched and realistic. I have an extra copy, so if we meet up for a sail this summer remind me to bring it along for you.



Edited by jonathan162 on May 29, 2020 - 12:58 PM.

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Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
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1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
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The really sad thing is that at the end of the scam they will send a name and physical address to send the extra money to and law enforcement does nothing with this information.

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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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I have gotten a few of the first emails... I always respond, "sorry I deal with cash and in person, if you're still interested call me on the phone provided in the ad.."

Pretty much ends there..

Thanks for the PSA Damon... always a good reminder.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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I also have interest in items that are listed for sale, but when I email or phone a question regarding purchasing the item there is no response. Is this just me or are these ads scams or no longer active?

The ads are authentic and for most, there is a fee to post them. The number of ads means that many are quite old by the time you may have seen them. The most current ads are in the Catamarans for Sale section. A lot of sellers will mark an item sold, but without doubt there are a lot of derelict ads no one is tracking.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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Thanks for info, I notice in your pic you are singlehanding the 5.7. Not too much to handle? Currently have a 1987 Prindle 16 but looking to upgrade. Any info on West Coast cat dealers? All I see are East Coast

Quote

I notice in your pic you are singlehanding the 5.7. Not too much to handle?

No good answer, it's all subjective. I for one, would never have a 16 if most of the time I had an experienced crew member. Sure, a 16 can fun, even a handful with enough wind but an 18 is better and if conditions are right, it's a blast to have 3 with 2 on the wire. 2 people can right an 18 a lot easier than one person can right a 16. Plus an 18 is about is about the limit for stepping the mast alone without the complications of mechanical assistance. I sail a 16 now only because I'm alone most all the time and because my age dictates I won't be doing it too much longer. If you have crew, get an 18 and if you want to single hand that 18, pick your days carefully.

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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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I have a friend that owns a P-16 and routinely take my 5.7 for a spin. The 5.7 is a more stable boat that will not pitch-pole and rises more predictably. I have capsized my share of times, and even peter-panned on the wire and into the dolphin striker when I was younger, but I find the boat very controllable and fast. I still routinely hit 20 mph single-handed and can drop the bow into the waves and take them over the crossbar. I use a Big Bag righting system and can bring the mast up. I turned 70 this year, so I don't push as hard as I used to. The 5.7 has always been able to take more wind and rough water than the smaller boats, but it lacks a reefing capability.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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As Tom said above,the 5.7 is a wonderful single handed boat. If you’re in decent shape & have some experience go for it. I need a bag to solo right it, unless the wind is about 18mph, then with the mast swum around it will come up. I’m only 170lb.
With two people it’s a breeze.
I’ve clocked over 21 mph (GPS) solo, two up & three up. No boom, no boards, simple to rig…it’s still my favourite cat.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Quote

No boom, no boards, simple to rig…it’s still my favourite cat.

I'll second that. However, I wouldn't exclude some others, like a Hobie 18, even though it has a boom and boards it has the advantage of availability. One thing I've always wondered though is why more manufacturers don't offer a front tramp especially on boats like the N5.7 or the N570. With boats that have ample hull volume forward and 18 ft the advantages are many and few disadvantages.

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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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These guys are showing up on Facebook Market Place now... with fake ads for things.

Be vigilant...

Remember 'if it is too good to be true... it isn't.."

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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