Some of the crew complain theyr got sore when sitting on the hulls of the Tornado. It is painted glass over cedar. We have no traction for hiking out yet either. Some of the current Nacras have a waffle pad that wraps from top to side that may do both provide cushion and traction. I read some A Class builders use HydroTurf. Anyone have any recommendations or experience with this? It appears they sell an under layer too. It sits out mostly covered so UV resistance is important.

PS I should probably tell them to toughen up or get on the wire, but about half the time we go out there isn't the need to trap.

--
John

Nacra 5.0
CT
--

some "real" sailing gear comes with padding in the knees, elbows and butt cheeks.
also wearing a harness helps a little in that area too..

Hi John,

I bought 2 Yoga mats and cut them into the required shapes then used 3M spray adhesive to glue them on. They are non skid when wet. They have been sitting out in the Florida sun all day for over a year and still look great. I may suggest a better adhesive though. It got tacky in the 98 degree summer and the edges peeled up a little. As soon as it cooled off they were solidly attached again. Not bad for about 30 bucks in materials.

Brad
G-Cat 5.7
Jacksonville, FL

The beautiful Tornado, its design is breathtaking and around
for a decades.. Its faster then most modern cats on the beach.
And it looks way better. Why ruin this beautiful appearance
with padding or something disturbing, non original, stuff ??

So, tell your crew to thoughen up, hike out halfway when they
have a sore arse.

Or, like MN3 suggested, get some "proper" sailing gear, there's
a lot of padded trapeze-harnesses around, Zikh, Neil Pride,
Magic Marine and I'm sure there are a lot more US brands.

If budget is an issue, have a look at bikers-shops or at
construction workers suppliers , you'll be surprised how much
padded gear is available. Same goes for thermal underwear.

Grtz, A



Edited by catmodding on Dec 06, 2016 - 11:34 PM.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

Thanks for the aesthetic reminder Andre. It is very handsome and don't want to ruin the look.

Better gear is probably in order, things happen fast on the T, so we move quickly around the boat. I come back more sore than when on the H16. Grinning more too.

How many days til spring???

--
John

Nacra 5.0
CT
--

Quote

bought 2 Yoga mats and cut them into the required shapes then used 3M spray adhesive to glue them on.

Caution must be used with this approach.
you risk moisture getting in the mat, or under it and causing blistering of gelcoat or other

I would advise against using any contact adhesive on the decks. It works well enough, but it makes a real mess when it comes time to remove or do any clean up. The Adhesive backed products are MUCH easier to deal with in this regard. Very well worth the $40 upgrade.

I think soft decks are a very worthwhile upgrade. It feels nice to sit on and really feels nice underfoot while on the trapeze.

Over time, the turf will start to wear in the sun and degrade very slowly. Eventually black turf will leave marks on clothing. On a keel boat sitting in full sun every day, it took about 2 years for this to happen. Gray decking is a great option as this problem is less, not to mention that its much cooler.

Certainly stay with the PWC/Boating line. The SUP line is a little softer, but will come apart/tear significantly faster in our application.

Full Disclosure, I am a Hydro Turf dealer.

I can offer competitive prices on this stuff shipped to your door.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

Gotta weigh in here as I have some experience in exactly this.
Had some deck repair to a Sunfish that I didn't feel like painting over, and thought it would be a great idea to put thin neoprene over it, glued down with 3m contact.
Glue held beautifully for the season I used it, but the neoprene didn't stand up to the UV and after 3 months in the sun, I had black all over me every time I sat on it or touched it.
Ended up finishing the deck with 2 part paint and was much happier in the end

--
Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--

Quote

I can offer competitive prices on this stuff shipped to your door.

can you give a very rough idea what it costs to do an f18 sized boat

does it come in white?

Not exact experience, Hydroturf is not neoprene. It last much much longer in the sun.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

I have a lot of experience with Hydroturf - been using it for years on my stand-up jet ski. It feels great underfoot, has fantastic grip and comes in all kinds of colors and designs (no need to get stuck with black). If you do it right it will bond so hard to fiberglass that it will tear before peeling off.



Edited by sjbrit on Dec 09, 2016 - 11:48 AM.

--
H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
--

Here you go - here's a picture of a five year old turf job on my ski. Admittedly this is stored indoors, but you can see it's very durable when it's put on right.





Edited by sjbrit on Dec 09, 2016 - 12:05 PM.

--
H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
--

Been looking at some of the Hydroturf for my Inter 20. Can it be installed over the rough traction on the deck or does that need to be sanded smooth?

--
Steve
Nacra Inter 20
Okemos Michigan
--

I would sand those area smooth. I was looking at installing that on my Inter 18 but was wondering about the ease of installation close to the cross beams where the hull shape has composite curves.

To those of you who have installed that product before, how that would be installing it over composite curves?

Thanks,

--
AB
--

How is hydroturf for cutting, and what kind of adhesive is required? Looks nice for top deck and along the side for traction.

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

On the non-skid its recommended to sand smooth. But I do have an A cat that it was installed over the skid. It seemed to hold up just fine adhesive wise.

It will contour and stretch over curves. It's important to have it cut out well before hand and slowly remove the backing paper as you go.

Mat cutters or carpet work really well on it. A lot of guy like the beveled edges. The mat cutter works well for that. Alternatively you can used a razor blade or bandsaw and dress the edges up with a sander. Definitely use the 3m adhesive backing.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

I used the 3M adhesive backed Hydroturf from Matt McDonald a few years ago to do my Infusion hull. Cost was $200 shipped, needed 2 half sheets IIRC. I'm forgetting at the moment if I sanded the non skid back. I want to say no, but I definitely cleaned it up well with alcohol prior to application. Of course knowing me I probably sanded it out of weight concerns.

In any case, I went through a heck of a lot of effort to apply the stuff. Plastic drop cloth taped in place then traced then copied over to the hydroturf then cutting the hydroturf (that's easy, sharp scissor and x-acto knives). Then application and final trimming. My 2 cents:

1) I used a thin version in black. I would go with the stuff shown above with the diamond pattern, black doesn't stain so easily, the grey stains. Nacra ships black in the large diamond pattern on all their new models, but gray is probably better for Florida and other more tropical venues

2) The templates were sort of useless in the end. Basically I did final trimming with an x-acto once applied to the boat, against the gelcoat itself but I have a fine touch for that kind of work. Its nice to start with a decent templates size but you need to cut oversize for the compound areas and there will be seams. Its helpful to look at a new boat that has the decking factory applied to know where the seamed areas are

3) The edges tend to lift, I've had rubber contact cement lift as well before so my suggestion is a little super glue, that's what I used during the install and it held up fine

4) If at all possible, get a kit for your boat. Maybe bacho makes some? I know Goodall does for their boats, and Raptor Decks (http://www.raptordeck.com/) supposedly has a large catalog of existing boats and kits to draw from

I can say positively that this was the biggest upgrade made to my 08' Infusion, besides a set of sails. New boards and that boat would have been faster than my 12' Infusion perhaps. Anyway, it makes a world of difference when sailing in breeze as the boat is far, far more grippy than without the nonskid, and the decks are more comfortable to sit on, but only a little bit-I wouldn't do the mod for that reason alone.

IMO this makes any boat look better, even the classic Tornado which is simply gorgeous to begin with. The only thing it won't do is make the hard deck to hull lip on the T disappear, which for me necessitates thicker soles on my boots for trapezing; +1 to Zhik here, I destroy sailing gear at the rate of the pros, but I've been on a pair of Zhik booties for 3 years, its probably time to replace them, previous boots last less than 1/2 my sailing season. Anyway, the minor discomfort under foot on the T is completely outweighed by every other aspect of that boat, its just a magnificent sailing machine and if you ever have the opportunity to jump on a sport rigged T you absolutely must say yes.

It works great over composite curves, and you can also cut darts out and rejoin the edges easily.

Tips for years of beautiful turf that never lifts:

Sand surfaces smooth and clean well with a solvent. Use contact adhesive, like Weldwood. You need to apply that in multiple thin layers on both the hull and the turf. Fiberglass usually takes a couple of layers, and the turf needs at least three since it gets absorbed. Let one layer dry before you put on the next one. You know you have enough when it drys to a shiny finish - the turf will dry matt until you have enough layers on there that it's not getting absorbed anymore. The key is multiple thin layers, preferably in warm conditions so the adhesive isn't too viscous.

When you stick it down you have to get it right first time! There's no going back if you have put the contact adhesive on right. Get it all stuck down and then (and this step is critical) whack the crap put of it with a rubber mallet. Contact adhesive needs that kind of pressure to adhere properly - if you do this then it just will NOT come off - you will literally tear the turf apart before the bond ever breaks.

For curves, heat the turf up with a hairdryer - it gets very malleable when warm. As I said, you can very successfully cut darts to get around sharp curves - build contact adhesive up on the cut edges just like I said above and then butt the edges together - it'll hold forever. Superglue is a good fix for peeling up edges but if you apply the adhesive right and bed it down with a mallet it shouldn't ever happen. You can tidy up seems and edges with sandpaper.

Turf takes a while to put on right, but if you follow those steps it will last for years. As I said - those pictures of my ski are a five year old turf job which has had no maintenance at all - it looks just like the day I did it.

--
H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
--

Agree with everything above sjbrit, with one detail. DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet. Even older beachcats are not designed to take that kind of abuse. Best would be to pull a nice even vacuum over the surface.

samc99us

Agree with everything above sjbrit, with one detail. DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet. Even older beachcats are not designed to take that kind of abuse. Best would be to pull a nice even vacuum over the surface.

Agree
DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet.

Maybe this was just humor but better safe than sorry. A Jet Ski deck is a whole lot stronger than a beachcat deck.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

i disagree

DamonLinkous

samc99us

Agree with everything above sjbrit, with one detail. DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet. Even older beachcats are not designed to take that kind of abuse. Best would be to pull a nice even vacuum over the surface.

Agree
DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet.

Maybe this was just humor but better safe than sorry. A Jet Ski deck is a whole lot stronger than a beachcat deck.

DamonLinkous

samc99us

Agree with everything above sjbrit, with one detail. DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet. Even older beachcats are not designed to take that kind of abuse. Best would be to pull a nice even vacuum over the surface.

Agree
DO NOT whack the crap out of your beachcat hull with a rubber mallet.

Maybe this was just humor but better safe than sorry. A Jet Ski deck is a whole lot stronger than a beachcat deck.

Yes, good point. Maybe don't whack the actual crap out of it, but you do need a whole lot more than a vacuum to get turf to bond for the long term. You can be gentle with a rubber mallet - just adjust to your particular hull. You don't need to go nuts, but do spend some time bouncing a rubber mallet off every square inch of the turf.

--
H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
--

I'll disagree again. Vacuum is ~ 14psi at sea level. Quite a lot of pressure, certainly enough to achieve the bond strength of the adhesive! Gentle tapping with a rubber mallet may work but that is a fair amount of effort! What I did was use the smooth edge of the handles on a pair of scissors to rub over the surface of the hydroturf and get a solid bond. I know the material is still stuck down 3 years later with no whacking involved.

Goodall has a solid set of instructions here: http://www.goodalldesign.com.au/Catamaran/index.php/owners-corner/tips/22-eva-deck-grip

I would suggest some type of cylindrical roller on a handle, or even a rolling pin instead of beating on the stuff.



Edited by martyr on Dec 23, 2016 - 09:59 PM.

--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--

I appear to have a lot more pent up anger than you guys Rolling works too. It's actually very little effort with a mallet - turf is pretty springy and the mallet just bounces along under its own weight with a little guidance and a little pressure. But a hard roller works too.

--
H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
--

So after finding out about hydro turf on this site, I decided to try it on (over) another deck repair on a sunfish clone I worked on over the last month.
Had some cracking on the deck and sanded it down, fiberglassed and epoxied it. Then sanded it smooth.
Ordered the material from hydro turf in S Cal, but was only able to get a cut pattern (not the diamond pattern shown earlier), given the size and color I wanted.
I had tried a similar fix awhile back on another boat, but used neoprene (earlier in this thread). Didn't work out so well.
This material was a breeze to work with. Cuts clean, lays down well. Clamped some stops in place to make sure I hit my marks as I was doing this as a one man job.
I bought the pre-glued backed material and it seems to have really bonded. Once stuck, there was no pulling it up.
I used a rolling pin and a lot of pressure to make sure it bonded to the cockpit edges where there was a bit more contour.
Don't know how well this will hold up over time to UV and saltwater, but will be able to update a season or two from now as this boat sits out on the beach, uncovered, from March to November.

--
Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--

Finished installing some on my wife's boat last night. Will post some more info on the boat soon.

https://goo.gl/photos/mP9L6g99RHjRy7uM7
https://goo.gl/photos/oWbKPpHq6LxEghus6



Edited by bacho on Jan 04, 2017 - 07:50 AM.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

Wow, looks great. I have a new project!

Bacho, what size sheets are you working from? Are there seams in the length of the application?

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

Where do you guys source the long adhesive backed astroturf material? All i can find are the 37' X 58" strips.
Is smooth, diamond, ridges or square grooves preferred?

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

Quote

Finished installing some on my wife's boat last night. Will post some more info on the boat soon.

Nice ride!

fxloop

Where do you guys source the long adhesive backed astroturf material? All i can find are the 37' X 58" strips.
Is smooth, diamond, ridges or square grooves preferred?

I went direct to Hydroturf in S Cal.
http://hydroturf.com/pwc_matcolors.php
They have several different sheet sizes and colors. Some sheet sizes not available in some patterns/colors, so be careful. They had to call me back and change pattern as the sheet size I wanted wasn't available in diamond pattern.
Some colors more susceptible to UV damage.
I bought the adhesive backed version

--
Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--

Some colors fade, they are marked on the website. I used green, it faded so much I removed it after one season. Gave a great grip though.

Some colors fade, they are marked on the website. I used green, it faded so much I removed it after one season. Gave a great grip though.

Which colors are less likely to fade?

--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--

Agreed. It looks like ~ $300 for the materials alone, not to mention many hours of prep, install and removal if it fades in just one season. See a lot of boats with grey smooth at regattas. Perhaps the best and/of factory installed?

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

The sizes available depend on your color choice. The biggest sheets can do a boat by themselves, depending on how ambitious you are.

The boat I pictured has one seam. Obviously it's nice to avoid them. Purple was only available in a smaller sheet so there was no option.

I like the smooth as it has the cleanest look. I do not think the different patterns offer much for performance in our application.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

what is the added weight for say an f18?

For what it is worth:
I bought a 47" x 86" sheet and total weight was about 8 lbs.
I don't think this material will absorb a lot of water, but can't test it out right now, as in winter season.
I bought royal blue cut version which might absorb more water than the diamond pattern.

--
Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--

Quote

total weight was about 8 lb

thanks for the info!

total weight? -
shipping weight?
materiel weight?
or weight of pieces that were cut into shape first, then weighed?

Who cares? It's about a 6-pack. Great deal for the return.

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

Clar

MN3

Quote

total weight was about 8 lb

thanks for the info!

total weight? -
shipping weight?
materiel weight?
or weight of pieces that were cut into shape first, then weighed?

Clarification
Total material weight of a 47" x 86" sheet was about 8#

--
Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--