Always been on a quest for a 20 foot cat that is not a total over powered rocket. I mostly adventure cruise stayed away from Nacra 6's and Prindle 19s. Saw a Dart 20 for sale. Weight seems reasonable to handle on the beach. The skeg hulls seem similar to a N5.7, do those make it difficult to push on the beach? Board less and Boomless which I like. Have not found much about them which I'm guessing means spare parts are an issue. There is a dart 18 on my beach that seems well built, I guess I can assume the same about the 20? Any feedback from some that owns or use to own or sailed one would be awesome

There are lots of Dart 18s around- I know a guy who owns four of them (don't tell his wife!)
The Dart 20 is rare in North America, so yes, parts will be an issue.
Tag Dartman here in thebeachcats.com, he knows of some Darts.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

A lot of the Dart 20 parts are identical to the D18's.
There's an old thread on TBC here http://www.thebeachcats.c…ms/viewtopic/topic/13725
At our cat club, we consider the dart rudder-system the best
system ever made for a beach cat, simple and sturdy.
Replacing them can be very costly, so have a good look at them.
The beams slide into the hulls, make sure the beam system works
well and all the springs and clips are in good shape.
Cat must be dismantled in order to place or take of the tramp.
Handling a D20 solo on the beach is easy, just make sure the
cat-track has the matching V-shaped hull-supports, otherwise
you'll be all over the place.
I have an original Dart 18 set up manual, I'm told its similar to
the D20 manual. Tried to upload it onto the tech-section, but it
didn't work.
So, if you pm me I can send it to You.

Grtz, André



Edited by catmodding on Nov 28, 2016 - 04:14 PM.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

Just another tip, the original name is "Dart 20 Stampede", might be
helpfull when you search the web .

A

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

Quote

Tried to upload it onto the tech-section, but it
didn't work.

Damon once told me it was tricky to post a multi page PDF file. I sent it to him, & he set it up.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

I recently acquired a Dart 20 sail #431 , I think it's a 1980. I found it on the hood canal in the PNW. It has a shop sticker for Mulder catamarans in the Nederlands which seems to still be in business according to their website (language barrier). I've found lots of information with a Google search including the manual. Check out the "Dart family statement ". Try searching variations of : panthercraft (the builder) dart20 stampede katamaran, also search dart 18 because they share so much . There's a YouTube called "dart 18 set up" that shows a lot . There are parts available in England ,bnrwatersports.com. it seems to be almost identical to the 18 except 2' longer.
The simplicity of the design of this boat is amazing. It can be assembled without any tools and I found the tramp can be removed without dismantling the boat. I haven't sailed it yet, it's in the shop for minor hull repair and paint, then new tramp and rigging, luckily the sails are in good condition. My computer skills are lacking so I'm unable to post photos or links but if you can't find the sites on your own, I'll try to get it together.

--
Dart 20
--

You asked about pushing around a skeg hull on the beach. I have had a NACRA 5.7 forever, and the skeg hulls can be dragged around, but this will eventually cause enough loss of material that they need repaired. A set of Cat Trax prevents this damage and makes life so much easier. The skeg is your centerboard, and it digs in like an anchor. DAMHIK

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

i have sailed dart 18 and 20's - all things stated above are true and on point

great boats for big air (originally made for sailing in the north sea)
DOGS in light air - stock jibs are basically handkerchiefs

Quote

My computer skills are lacking so I'm unable to post photos or links but if you can't find the sites on your own, I'll try to get it together.

Scott, for the links, click on the little box just below where you type your post, the one that says URL. That will open a set of brackets in your message. Copy the link from the address bar, then place your cursor inside the two sets of brackets, then paste the link.
It will now be live. It will show up in blue on these pages, & others can just click the link to open it.

Quote

stock jibs are basically handkerchiefs

True, for all sizes of Dart. There is an 18 around the point from me, & the N5.7 walks,(runs) away in light air. The Dart 18 mast is 2' shorter, & the jib is practically nothing. The smaller Dart 15, (previously known as a Spark) also sports a tiny jib.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

boatbore

My computer skills are lacking so I'm unable to post photos or links but if you can't find the sites on your own, I'll try to get it together.

Scott, sent you a PM (Private Message)

If you would like to share the manuals and links but can't get it posted in the forums please email them to me at.

damon@ (domain name for this site) and I'll get them archived in the Beachcats Identification section and posted here.

Thanks

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Oh noes , wanted a new cat and got a dog!
Damon, Thanks for the help I sent you a email with the pdf dart 20 manual , hope it works.
The 2 jibs that came with my dart 20 are more like diapers than handkerchiefs but we'll see when I get the boat together.
Perhaps a spin pole with something larger is in my future.

--
Dart 20
--

I believe the Stampede i sailed had a sprit and f18 spin on it at one time - bet it was a hoot in a blast

boatbore

Damon, Thanks for the help I sent you a email with the pdf dart 20 manual

I've uploaded the Dart 20 Manual you sent, there is also a manual for the 16 and 18 in the Dart Catamaran folder in Beachcats Identification.

http://www.thebeachcats.c…/pictures?g2_itemId=3477

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Scott sent me a PDF that is basically the history of Dart Catamarans, I've added it to the Dart album in a History folder.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…/pictures?g2_itemId=3477

The history and troubles of the Dart class mirror many other beach catamaran classes that were introduced in the 60's and 70's. If you aren't aware that there have been a lot more brands than Hobie and Nacra, take a look at the Beachcat Identification album. I try to collect information on all the "extinct" brands, so if anyone has this kind of info please send it my way.

http://www.thebeachcats.c…res&type=&g2_itemId=3120

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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boatbore

It has a shop sticker for Mulder catamarans in the Nederlands which seems to still be in business according to their website

Mulder catamarans is the Dart specialist in the Netherlands,
https://bnrwatersport.com is also located in the
Netherlands, not in England.
They have a large stock of second hand parts and catamarans,
not only Dart.

boatbore

The simplicity of the design of this boat is amazing. It can be assembled without any tools and I found the tramp can be removed without dismantling the boat.

Oops,sorry, didn't know that. When I see the Dart 18 guys dismantling
their cats, they always slide one hull of the beams and then take of
the tramp. Last month I helped a guy doing it this way.
I assumed it was the way to go.

Grtz A

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

I have a Dart 20 Stampede. In lighter air with me @200lbs and 250lbs of others we were about even with a Hobie 16 with one guy @ 170 lbs. In medium to heavy air it takes off. Mine has a bigger jib. A p/o put a small crossbar on the bows and rigged it to so the forestay is longer and the bridal is lower. I also have a square top main. I sail in Tampa and Sarasota bays so the lack of dagger/center boards is very nice with all the shallow areas and sea weed. I do solo it in up to medium air and its is very easy to do from the harness. The boat tracks well with little input from the helm. Moving it in the sand is best done with Cat Tracks, but dragging it on the beach from the water is no problem for one person. Just drag and lift at the same time. Don't leave it on the beach with the main attached to the sheet or it will take off on its own. I have had no problems getting parts from windsport.co.uk. It uses most of the same hardware that the 18 uses. Another plus is that is is not a cored hull, so no delamination and easier repairs. If you think about it the Hobie Wave has a very similar design and is assembled and disassembled the same way. The Wave has a much smaller SA ratio though. Good luck!

boatbore

The simplicity of the design of this boat is amazing. It can be assembled without any tools

How is that accomplished? Are the hulls pulled in against the beams by tightening the tramp? No bolts?

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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The Dart trampoline is part of the boat structure, much like a monocoque race car structure. As such, the trampoline must be properly attached and tightened to keep both hulls butted up against the 4 stops which are attached to the crossbeams. No doubt this was designed for the European market due to the limited storage spaces which required the catamaran to be taken apart as easily as possible!!!

Yes the tramp but more so the rig tension pulls the hulls together with the bridle putting the most force on pulling the hulls together. The forward beam has a massive 6" cross section and the tramp feeds into the leading edge (no dolphin striker) and the trailing edge of the aft beam. That puts a binding (stiffening) tension against the hulls. Doing the lift one bow test on my newly acquired d 20, without the rig up and with a rotten trampoline, it was stiffer than my nacra 5.2.
I understand from those here who are more experienced that the boat is underpowered but,
I'm intrigued with this boat, its clean simplicity, sort of a blank canvas. How can I power it up to fit my venue (salish sea)
A fun project.

Quote

Mulder catamarans is the Dart specialist in the Netherlands

My newly acquired 1980 d20 was purchased there, someone loved this boat enough to ship it to the PNW with its trailer . I bought it from someone who had no clue of what it was, or what to do with it. I can't wait to get it wet.
Good to hear they're still in business, seems selling cats is more profitable than making them .

Quote

Oops,sorry, didn't know that. When I see the Dart 18 guys dismantling
their cats, they always slide one hull of the beams and then take of
the tramp. Last month I helped a guy doing it this way.
I assumed it was the way to go.

If you're going to break it all the way down anyway, that would be the easiest way. There's a feeder slot in the center of the forward beam that allows you to pull the bolt rope (?)out without separating the hulls.

--
Dart 20
--

Quote

How is that accomplished? Are the hulls pulled in against the beams by tightening the tramp? No bolts

Correct. They utilize a clip/spring. You slide one end of the beam into the hull til it hits the retaining clip. When the other hull is slid onto the beam, the spring will pop the clip into place when beam is fully seated. If you look closely at the photo in your Dart 15 album, you can see the clip at the rear beam.

Quote

No doubt this was designed for the European market due to the limited storage spaces which required the catamaran to be taken apart as easily as possible!!!

I agree. The Dart 15 assembly manual, ( I added it to Damons Dart 15 page), Page 1 talks about removing Cat from car roof.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures?g2_itemId=126206

Page 4 of the manual explains how to assemble the frame via the springs/clips

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

I understand from those here who are more experienced that the boat is underpowered but

Underpowered is a relative term. If you don't weigh 1/2 a metric ton, & sail it solo, you will do just fine in lighter air.
Beat F16's, no, but the fun factor will be just as good. Two Senior chaps, about a mile down the lake,(who raced together in England for decades) regularly sail one.
If the wind is light they take the H16 & Dart 18. When it really starts to blow they double hand the Dart, & it's no slouch, certainly far faster than say, a Getaway. They are also lighter than my N5.7, & quite a bit less than the H18.
A Nacra 5.0 also sits at my dock, & it has also been called underpowered. I do notice however that we flog it into big seas when the neighbors H16 & especially the H17 won't leave the dock.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

I'm intrigued with this boat, its clean simplicity, sort of a blank canvas. How can I power it up to fit my venue (salish sea)

The one i sailed on had a tornado square top (probably a pin top cut down and into a square top) and had a non stock jib (possibly also a tornado) and a furler

this helped heat it up in lighter air

Thanks guys, hoping to take a look before the holidays. If I get it just have to decide which boat to get rid of, 3 is a crowd

Edchris177

If you look closely at the photo in your Dart 15 album, you can see the clip at the rear beam.

Ed,

Thanks for the info, I'm sure you can tell that picture is from your Dart 15 Album here.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures?g2_itemId=113275

I was going to move that album into the new Dart Catamarans album but can't move it or individual pictures.

If you still have the originals of those photos could you add them inside the Dart 15 album like you did the assembly manual? I've increased the max image size to 1920 pixels on all albums also.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Quote

If you still have the originals of those photos could you add them inside the Dart 15 album like you did the assembly manual?

Done.
I was actively pursuing one of these for those big wind/solo/ dead easy to right from turtle days.
There used to be an active fleet of 18's around London, Ontario & they come up for sale regularly, however I have only seen 2 of the smaller 15's.
I deleted the original album as it is now superfluous.



Edited by Edchris177 on Dec 01, 2016 - 11:05 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Edchris177

Quote

If you still have the originals of those photos could you add them inside the Dart 15 album like you did the assembly manual?

Done.

Thanks Ed!

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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"Underpowered is a relative term"

Yes, and comparing the d20 rig to my 5.2 , while the mast is only 18" longer, its E (foot) is substantially longer (don't remember the number) with a much deeper cut. The jib also is much larger . 65 lb heavier So proportionally it seems like it should do well in all conditions. I'll soon find out.

" The one i sailed on had a tornado square top (probably a pin top cut down "

I like that idea, no shortage of used tornado sails. Luckily I have good sails for now

--
Dart 20
--

Quote

So proportionally it seems like it should do well in all conditions

a stock dart 20 is a dog in light air. i will stand by that statement.
I have sailed a d20 in 2-3.... we were 4 hours or so late for (thanksgiving) dinner.

these boats were designed for north sea action. it's foul weather up there 13 months a year.

conversely ... these boats (stock) can handle a LOT of wind

I have been in 20-45? trapped out a dart18... it was the funnest thing i ever did.... but it was also the one of the wildest thing i ever had done ...

so if you have options (larger sail plan for light air and stock sails for heavy air....) then you may do better in all conditions...

Quote

so if you have options (larger sail plan for light air and stock sails for heavy air....) then you may do better in all conditions...

If you elect to get a larger sail, be very careful with the foot measurement. The boomless rigs can't handle much extra.
I have a couple of factory sails for my 5.7. The larger one quickly goes block-to-block if I hook into the end, (more power)cringle.
IIRC the Dart sails sit quite high, lots of room below it. The N 5.0 sail foot is horizontal, while the 5.7 utilizes a "sweeper" on the bottom. Perhaps that could be added to a Dart sail, for an extra 5-6 sq ft.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

boatbore

Perhaps a spin pole with something larger is in my future.

Wouldn’t recommend that, I’ve seen Dart 18 masts break (2 so far) due
to experimental spi set ups. The masts are basically straight alu poles,
no diamond, no spreaders. No reinforcement whatsoever.
The Dart 18 & 20 are simply not designed to carry a spi.
When you accidentally release the mainsheet in a gibe with the spi up,
the mast-top just pops above the stay-attachment.

The Dart 20 at our club has a F18 fathead main and a T classic jib as
an upgrade, Its doing quite good in lighter conditions.

Grtz, André



Edited by catmodding on Dec 04, 2016 - 04:41 PM.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

Thanks everyone for the great insight on darts

--
Dart 20
--

Dartman

"much like a monocoque race car structure."

Monocoque Bob, really???

Now you're just making up wordz.
You just keep yer UniCock to yourself, Mister!


--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

Nowhave 3 Dart 18 (lost Nacra 5.2 to sandy& lost my nacra5.7 to a n'or Easter), and confirm al Dart observations. Never sailed Dart 20 but sailed side by side and observed when beached next to my Prindle 16 years ago-looked fast but my tornado sailing friends term it a "pig"- I confirm my Dart 18s are slow in light air with our doily size jibs ,but over 15 knots with 2 on board each cat I am more than competitive with much newer Nacra 570 with Mylar sails vs my older Dacron sails. I have tried to utilize modified Hobie 16 jib (which is as big as Dart18 main sail) or Prindle 16 jib on light air days with varied results, always stowing stock jib on board in case wind comes up. skegs really suck when you are schlepping cat up and down beach without cat trax, but taking boat apart is a breeze and 2 people can easily carry a hull once separated from crossbars(old promo tape has hottie helping her man put cat together with seeming ease, but doesn't show them stepping the mast! In my experience need 3 to do that safely.)

klozhald

Dartman

"much like a monocoque race car structure."

Monocoque Bob, really???

Now you're just making up wordz.
You just keep yer UniCock to yourself, Mister!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocoque

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--