Hi everyone - my first time here. In my younger days I used to rip around on a Hobie 16 only truly happy when we were airborne or plowing into an epic pitch pole! OK, so 25 years later after a long break from sailing I'm moving to Florida (just north of Tampa) and I'm super-excited about getting back into sailing (in fact that's the #1 reason for making the move back to the coast). I think we'll be doing an altogether different kind of sailing there so I could do with some advice on which cat to look out for. Here are my requirements:

• I'm not a racer (unless there's another cat within 20 miles - mwahahaha!) - this is all about fun. I don't want a complicated, delicate cat that needs to be handled with white gloves.
  
• I do have a place where I can leave the mast up over the weekend, but I expect most of the time I will be day sailing so I need something not too arduous to set up. It also needs to be straightforward to trailer, so probably not super-wide.
  
• I'll be mostly two up - me and my wife or some other willing victim. However, I do want something I can single-hand in lighter conditions. You can single-hand anything in the right wind, but my requirement is that I can right it alone (I'm more than happy using something like a righting pole).
  
• We'll be heading off to hang on one of the many islands so I need a cat that I can load up with a few supplies - lunch etc., and maybe a couple of extra people for short haul transits or a weekends worth of camping gear.
  
• We'll be squeezing through island passes so I need something with pretty good upwind performance if I'm beating home through a gap. I'm thinking maybe something with center-boards?
  
• Above all, it needs to be FUN! The thing I miss most about the H16 is just ripping across the bay, two out on the wire, and feeling like I can fly! I wouldn't mind a dryer ride though....

So what do you think? I'll probably have a budget of around $10k tops. I'm pretty proficient in hull-repairs and not averse to replacing a baggy set of sails, so I have no problem going with an older cat.

Thanks! - Adrian.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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My thoughts:

Nacra 570/5.7
Hobie 18
Prindle 18
Nacra 5.8
Nacra 5.5 sl

Basically in order of preference.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Log in
click on "Search"
Type "What Cat to Buy"
there are quite a few threads with exactly your question.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Edchris, yes, I'm in search mode for sure but wanted to see if anyone had any pointers. Wolfman, thanks for the tips. I'm familiar with Hobies and Prindles but the Nacras are new to me (I grew up sailing in the UK and I'm not sure I ever saw one over there). They do look very interesting. Looks like I'll need some advice from local sailors in terms of boards vs. skegs - I'm not sure how the shallows are in that area. I've done a bunch of monohull sailing so I know my way around boards, but I do like the point-and-shoot simplicity of skegs or asymmetrics.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Nacra 5.8 just listed in classifieds and in Florida

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Carl

Dart 18x2
Nacra 5.8
1967 B-LION for sale
1985 Hobie 18
Windrider Rave x2 for sale
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Take a long look at the G-Cat 5.7 It does everything that you want to do and is the simplest set-up boat going. No boards, symmetric hulls, the deep vee profile provides lateral resistance and helps unload the rudders. Front tramp is for gear and extra passengers. Take the front tramp off and it'll out run a Hobie 18. Extremely smooth and dry ride. No foam coring in the hulls makes them very durable and not prone to little compression dings. Put a new square top boomless main on it and you'll surprise some folks with her speed.

Okay, major disclosure, my old 5.7 is listed on this site. I love the G-Cat but just have too many boats at this time.

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'life is too short to drink cheap beer'
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The only downside to the g cat is availability of spares, but that doesn't have to be a huge downside

I love my Nacra 5.7 for most of the same reasons. It's definitely the best most stable boat I've ever sailed. The only potential downside is that it may not point quite as high as a boarded boat. However, no boom, no boards, simple setup huge tramp and great speed make up for that I believe.

I own 2 nacras and have convinced quite a few friends to buy them. Haven't heard any complaints yet.



Edited by Wolfman on Sep 26, 2015 - 09:03 PM.

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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I'll take a look at the G-Cat. I must admit that I'm fairly taken with the Nacra after reading all afternoon. The 570 Sport looks great, but I don't see many for sale. Looks like a 5.7 with a genny upgrade might be a good option. The more I think about it the more I like the no boom / no boards design for those times when I have newb along for the ride.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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I just looked at your G-Cat, havliii. What year is that? Would it take a gennaker? That front tramp is definitely appealing for extra gear.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Quote

(I grew up sailing in the UK and I'm not sure I ever saw one over there)

You might be familiar with the Dart 18. It is fairly close to the Nacra 5.7, skeg hulls, boomless, carries a 2' shorter mast & smaller sail plan to deal with the bigger winds of the North Sea.

Quote

but wanted to see if anyone had any pointers.

That is exactly the reason I suggested the /Search.
You gave good intel re experience/area/what you want.
There are lots of good pointers in those threads.
Your budget allows for quite a bit. In your area, I would drive to Dunedin. There are a bunch of good guys sailing off the causeway, just before Honeymoon Is, just beside where they rent kayaks/cats.
They have mast up storage for a few days/week, & have some very good techniques for solo stepping.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Yes, the Nacra did remind me of the Dart. Funny you should mention Dunedin Causeway - we're just in the process of making an offer on a house not 30 mins from there

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Yes, you could rig a genaker on the G-Cat. This boat comes with a ton of spare parts, including a spare mast and 4 rudders, so that is not an issue. Can't remember the year, will have to get it off the hull today.

Hans Geisler, the designer and G-Cat master lives right there in S. Florida. Chances are you'll sail with him one day. Look at the results from the most recent Florida Dog Fight, Hans won the open class (on corrected time) on a G-Cat 5.0.

I'm currently sailing a Supercat 20, which my wife does not enjoy (very wet and wild ride) I also have a Farrier Tramp trimaran, a Supercat 19 and several other project boats.

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'life is too short to drink cheap beer'
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Well, after a whole pile of reading I really think the Nacra 570/5.7 looks like the best option. I looked a bunch at the H18, P18, N1.8 and whereas I think my wife and I would have a blast on them, I keep thinking about the inevitable times when I have someone less experienced crewing with me. For those cases, and when single-handing, I love the idea of not having to mess with boards. And I must say that not having a boom has a certain appeal after a few bad encounters on my old H16!

So, fingers crossed that our offer gets accepted on the house we've found, and then I can start the hunt for the right cat. Thanks for the help! There's a ton of great info. on this forum. Looking forward to getting back in the water

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Quote

I really think the Nacra 570/5.7 looks like the best option.

You will love that boat. Solo, double, or triple, I've made my old 5.7 do a hair over 20mph.
Going upwind solo, get up to the front beam. If you sink the lee bow, you can still point OK. It can be pitchpoled, but you really have to work at it.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

I'm not a racer (unless there's another cat within 20 miles - mwahahaha!) - this is all about fun. I don't want a complicated, delicate cat that needs to be handled with white gloves.

Mystere 5.5

Quote

I do have a place where I can leave the mast up over the weekend, but I expect most of the time I will be day sailing so I need something not too arduous to set up. It also needs to be straightforward to trailer, so probably not super-wide.

Mystere 5.5

Quote

I'll be mostly two up - me and my wife or some other willing victim. However, I do want something I can single-hand in lighter conditions. You can single-hand anything in the right wind, but my requirement is that I can right it alone (I'm more than happy using something like a righting pole).

Mystere 5.5

Quote

We'll be heading off to hang on one of the many islands so I need a cat that I can load up with a few supplies - lunch etc., and maybe a couple of extra people for short haul transits or a weekends worth of camping gear.
We'll be squeezing through island passes so I need something with pretty good upwind performance if I'm beating home through a gap. I'm thinking maybe something with center-boards?

Mystere 5.5

Quote

Above all, it needs to be FUN! The thing I miss most about the H16 is just ripping across the bay, two out on the wire, and feeling like I can fly! I wouldn't mind a dryer ride though....

Mystere 5.5

I have 3 Mystere's in my back yard. You can buy one (or all 3 for the right price) :)
I am in clearwater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTPRNHCjbwU

http://www.thebeachcats.c…5-5-catamaran241800.html

LOL! OK - maybe I'll have a look at the Mystere too. Looks like I have a bunch more reading to do!

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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So those are centerboards on the Mystere, right? They kick up?

EDIT: Never mind - I found the answer. Yes - centerboards.



Edited by sjbrit on Sep 28, 2015 - 11:19 AM.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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a little more on mystere's and this part of florida

mystere's owner/designer used to bring boats down here in the fall for testing and resale in the late 80's early 90's. Then several locals became dealers and were selling new mystere's here. there even was a myetere rental/sailing school at the St Pete Pier some 20 years ago or so,
there are a lot of mystere's around here

the new company "mystere composites" sells new and used mystere parts (but their support is sometimes lacking)

Quote

I just looked at your G-Cat, havliii. What year is that? Would it take a gennaker? That front tramp is definitely appealing for extra gear.

Gennaker, screecher or spinnaker. All can be made to work

the front tramp makes all those things easier to access but like every boat design there are pro's and cons to the front tramp. i.e. except in very light air, it's not a good place for weight, when your gcat takes a nose dive (it likes to do that in heavy air) it isn't exactly "waive piercing" and if/when your on your side ... it's a lot of extra windage to wrasttle with.

that being said, i like gcats, and sail with 2 of the best gcat sailers in the world. they are both hard to catch (one is 75 year old hans)

@MN3 - I was watching your video on YouTube (very nice - where were you sailing?) and I notice you had a pole up front. Do you run an asymmetric? What kind? Screechers are new to me - they got popular after I took off on my sailing hiatus. I'm more used to a fuller gennaker from my monohull days. Seems like a screecher suits a cat pretty well with the extra speed and consequently closer reaches. It also looks like you had a nifty spot for some temporary extra storage up there.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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sjbrit

So what do you think? I'll probably have a budget of around $10k tops. I'm pretty proficient in hull-repairs and not averse to replacing a baggy set of sails, so I have no problem going with an older cat.

Thanks! - Adrian.

Adrian,

Welcome to TheBeachcats.com! You are locating to a beachcat sailing paradise, congrats!

Wanted to thank you for your excellent first post. We get a lot of "which beachcat should I buy" posts and they are usually completely devoid of information that would help advise.

Reading your first post I probably would have said buy a nice newer model Hobie 16, it will come back to you and is the easiest to find and fits all your bullet points just fine.

However one of the most important things about choosing a beachcat is the community of fellow sailors and your local sailors have their own thing going that is working. So joining in with a Mystere or G-Cat makes a lot of sense.

Whatever you buy keep a substantial budget for new sails, nothing cranks up the cool and the performance like new sails.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Thanks, Damon. I do miss that old Hobie, but I think my wife has had enough of me launching her into oblivion as I try to bury the nose and point a bit higher! Her boss was ready to report me for domestic violence once after she hit every bit of standing rigging on the way down after a particularly epic pitch-pole and ended up bruised from head to toe! Ahh - those were the days....

I've been thinking along the lines you suggest: looking for a solid older cat at a decent price and kitting it out with some shiny new sales. I see some aftermarket sailmakers are producing square top sales for older models which would make a nice upgrade. Looking at the Mystere and Nacra I think that could end up working rather nicely. I can come back and add an asymmetric when we've got ourselves dialed back in and are feeling the need for some more speed.

I'm pretty excited: after years of sailing in the UK I'm pretty stoked about the idea of sailing without worrying about hypothermia!

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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sjbrit

where were you sailing?

st joesephs sound

Quote

Do you run an asymmetric? What kind?

Tornado olympic spins (we used to have a hook up for lightly used gear from pro racers via a local racer

Quote

It also looks like you had a nifty spot for some temporary extra storage up there.

yes, custom front tramp from sunrise yacht
it has a pocket underneath it with a double velcrow flap for 2 rightingbags
has a pocket on top for the anchor and room for a cooler or other gear as well.

Quote

I'm pretty excited: after years of sailing in the UK I'm pretty stoked about the idea of sailing without worrying about hypothermia!

I've sailed in the UK. brrrrr

It's just about the sailing season here in the gulf and it's nice but the water does get down to the 50's in the winter ... so it still is not always "warm". i wear a dry bib in the colder months

MN3

I've sailed in the UK. brrrrr

I've actually stomped though ice around the shore to go windsurfing - it seemed virtuous at the time but now it just seems crazy! I'm all over being in water so cold it feels like your skull is going to crack open when you go under....

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Quote

I'm all over being in water so cold it feels like your skull is going to crack open when you go under....

there is a guy on catsailor.com who built his own prindle16 in the north sea. he tows it out the beach with his john deer and sails in CRAZY conditions.... if you are a sailor.. your gonna find a way.

Dunedin Cup, last weekend
cat div (there were many divs)

Mystere's were tragically under-represented (only 1, a 5.5 with my old sail) - not typical



Edited by MN3 on Sep 28, 2015 - 06:44 PM.

MN3

if you are a sailor.. your gonna find a way.

Amen to that!

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Adrian,
There is also the possibility of adding wings to any of these cats. Wings add comfort and room. You can remove them when you want to go solo and hang on the wire.

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Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past

Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
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Check out that 15 foot SuperCat in good deals.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Quote

There is also the possibility of adding wings to any of these cats. Wings add comfort and room.

+1

Get a H18 with wings! Your wife will love it.

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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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just like every different boat design - wings have pros and cons


Pros
nice to have with good air
They are great for extra room
they rock for crew (with good air)
can aid in righting in some ways (i.e a place to stand for added leverage, and i have a hiking-strap on mine that can be stood on after a flip to get to anything on the tramp/deck)


Cons
They add a good deal of weight
they are not so easy to put on or take off the boat(solo)
they add a little time to boat set up, break down, cleaning and tarping
they can add to the job of righting a boat (extra weight and windage)
aftermarket wings are not cheap nor easy to find
even stock ones are often not optimally designed and many have/cause structural issues

my wing

my buddy zack on his mystere 5.5 with added wings




Edited by MN3 on Sep 30, 2015 - 08:53 PM.

Don't rule out the N20. Currently the best bang for the buck, and was designed as a spin boat. Plenty of them out there in your price range.

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Philip
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I've always been in two minds about wings. I've never actually sailed with them, but they do seem to have their benefits. On the other hand my view has always been skewed by the lack of adoption: they are pretty rare. Surely if they were so great everyone would be offering them in their line-up, with all kinds of after-market options?

Philip, that N20 looks like a bit of a handful singlehanded, no? I'd worry about getting that beast back upright by myself.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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I agree I have wings for my Nacra 5.7 but I also love to trapeze so I'm torn. If you are going to do significant solo sailing the wings substantially simplify things because you can achieve the same counterbalance as trapesing by just sitting on the wings and hiking out.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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If i only had 1 boat, with wings...

i would take them off for the light air season (late spring all summer) and put them on for the windier season (fall/early spring)

Dave as you can see my friend above. you can trap off the wings. I have been on a mystere 6.0 with 2 on the wire (off the wing), skipper on the wing ... it was a hoot!

That being said, I wouldn't allow that on my boat. too much weight and heavy air = broken parts (more often than appropriate weight in any air)



Edited by MN3 on Sep 30, 2015 - 08:51 PM.

I think the only reason I would go for wings is to increase my solo wind range, but certainly not as a substitute for trapping.

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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It's no harder to right then any of the other boats. It's more of a handful when racing single handed, not so much when recreation sailing.

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Philip
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OK, so here's where I think I am:

• First choice: N570/5.7. I love the simplicity of skeg hulls and no boom. These seem to be hard to find on the second-hand market though.
  
• Close second: Mystere 5.5. Lots of good local support and more availability, although a little harder to find parts.
  
• If none of those, then probably a daggerboard boat which opens up a whole new pile of research (N5.8, P18, H18 etc.)
  

When it comes down to it it will be all about what's available and the condition of the hulls - sails I'm not so fussed about since they are easily replaced.

We just put in an offer on a house today, so fingers crossed! Then my SeaRay Bowrider goes on the market to fund the cat. Anyone need a power boat?

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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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Good luck with everything (the house, the power-boat, the cat, etc)
i sent you a Private Message with my contact info if you have any questions about the boats i have, or the local area / sailing area

sjbrit

OK, so here's where I think I am:

• First choice: N570/5.7. I love the simplicity of skeg hulls and no boom. These seem to be hard to find on the second-hand market though.
  
• Close second: Mystere 5.5. Lots of good local support and more availability, although a little harder to find parts.
  
• If none of those, then probably a daggerboard boat which opens up a whole new pile of research (N5.8, P18, H18 etc.)
  

When it comes down to it it will be all about what's available and the condition of the hulls - sails I'm not so fussed about since they are easily replaced.

We just put in an offer on a house today, so fingers crossed! Then my SeaRay Bowrider goes on the market to fund the cat. Anyone need a power boat?