all the rivets on my clew plate have rusted out , the sail seems fine the holes are all in good shape.
i see that there is a special tool needed to replace these rivets ... is there a better way ?

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"take your dreams down from the shelf take the measure of yourself upon a beckoning sea"
eileen quinn
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Those rivets should be Aluminum..........?

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Bill 404 21SE
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read this.....http://www.thebeachcats.c…ms/viewtopic/topic/13727

Use number 8 stainless steel pan head machine screws with flat washers and hex nuts with Loctite on the threads in place of the rivets. After installing the screws, use a dremel tool to trim them flush with the nuts and grind off any sharp edges. I've done this on several sails when repairing clew plates or replacing batten protectors and it works fine. It's not quite as clean looking as a rivet, but it gets the job done without needing any special tools. The other advantage is that you can easily remove the plate later on if you need to. Your only other real option would be to take the sail to a sail maker to have them install the rivets which would be a waste of money IMO.

sm

I have a sail that uses machine screws like that. Works fine.

However, setting solid aluminum rivets for this purpose isn't very difficult and you shouldn't have a problem doing it yourself with a sledge as a backer and a ball peen hammer.

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Dogboy

Use number 8 stainless steel pan head machine screws with flat washers and hex nuts with Loctite on the threads in place of the rivets. After installing the screws, use a dremel tool to trim them flush with the nuts and grind off any sharp edges. I've done this on several sails when repairing clew plates or replacing batten protectors and it works fine. It's not quite as clean looking as a rivet, but it gets the job done without needing any special tools. The other advantage is that you can easily remove the plate later on if you need to. Your only other real option would be to take the sail to a sail maker to have them install the rivets which would be a waste of money IMO.

+1 for a quick fix....

the-renovator

+1 for a quick fix

Not exactly quick or easy.
The quick and easy solution is Wolfman's get the rivets and peen them in place.
You only need an anvil (or sledge, as mentioned) and a ball peen hammer, though you could do it with a regular hammer.

Version two has you finding all the parts, assembling and tightening them with Locktite, grinding off the extra material and sharp edges. And when it comes time to removing the plate (why?) grinding off the head or nuts of each bolt is easier than doing the same to a simple rivet?

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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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I've never used an anvil and ball peen hammer on aluminum rivets, so I can't speak to how that works, but I guess it might be easy enough. I know when riveting batten caps on, you need a special tool to set the rivets into the countersunk cap holes. When buying clew plates, I'm not sure whether they come with the rivets or not. When I did the clew plate repair myself, it was because the aluminum rivets had corroded and the plates were falling off. I didn't have a source for aluminum rivets or the tooling to set them, so I just used machine screws - something that I'm familiar working with and which is readily available. Sail lofts use rivets because they're quick and easy to set with the right tooling and provide a clean, finished appearance. For the DIYer, they may not be the best. There are occasions when you might want to replace a clew plate (the shackle has a tendency to wear through the plate over time and the plates can corrode). Screws also give you the ability to precisely control the pressure on the fastener, something you probably can not do as easily when working with an anvil and hammer. Both types of fasteners have their pros and cons, there is no "right" answer.

sm

The Aluminum solid rivets are the proper way if you have the skills, never tried it so not sure how hard it would be seems like you would need to clamp the two plates to the sail to keep them in place while you pound each rivet.

The screws are a simple fix and always available at the local hardware store.

I've fixed a main clew plate that fell off on the beach by using aluminum pop-rivets, planning to replace them later with something better but kept using it like that for a couple more years until the boat sold, as far as I know they are still going strong.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Dogboy

I've never used an anvil and ball peen hammer on aluminum rivets, so I can't speak to how that works, but I guess it might be easy enough. I know when riveting batten caps on, you need a special tool to set the rivets into the countersunk cap holes. When buying clew plates, I'm not sure whether they come with the rivets or not. When I did the clew plate repair myself, it was because the aluminum rivets had corroded and the plates were falling off. I didn't have a source for aluminum rivets or the tooling to set them, so I just used machine screws - something that I'm familiar working with and which is readily available. Sail lofts use rivets because they're quick and easy to set with the right tooling and provide a clean, finished appearance. For the DIYer, they may not be the best. There are occasions when you might want to replace a clew plate (the shackle has a tendency to wear through the plate over time and the plates can corrode). Screws also give you the ability to precisely control the pressure on the fastener, something you probably can not do as easily when working with an anvil and hammer. Both types of fasteners have their pros and cons, there is no "right" answer.

Well said SM, and that is exactly what I was referring to when I said....

the-renovator

+1 for a quick fix....

If you don't have the tools or the know-how, the machine screws would be the way I would go, I like Damons quick fix even better, just use short-shank pop rivets.

R

Quote

And when it comes time to removing the plate (why?) grinding off the head or nuts of each bolt is easier than doing the same to a simple rivet?

The techs NEVER grind off rivets, at least not in the aerospace industry. You drill them using a bit slightly smaller than the shank diameter, to depth just equalling the head. Then insert another bit,(using the non cutting end) into the hole & pop the head off. The rivet is then pushed out.
If you drill past the head you will invariably enlarge the original hole, resulting in a weaker fit.

Quote

I've never used an anvil and ball peen hammer on aluminum rivets, so I can't speak to how that works, but I guess it might be easy enough.

Don't over think it, "anvil" does not mean one of those 200lb chunks of iron. It can be something as simple as a small block/bar of steel that may be simply held against the rivet end if the work is being done on a vertical or inverted piece of work. You may hear them referred to as a "bucking bar".
In the case of a clew plate, we can always work with the "anvil" on a concrete floor, & the rivet shank vertical. It is then very easy to peen the rivet, or for a neater job, use a medium diameter pin punch,(obviously with a flat or concave end) striking the punch with hammer. Try to do the job with only 6ish blows.

Quote

seems like you would need to clamp the two plates to the sail to keep them in place while you pound each rivet.

Correct, use screw clamps or vice grips,(padding as necessary to prevent marring plates). Remember it is the pressure between the two plates that actually holds the sail. If you don't get that pressure the rivets will rip right through when you put a load on.
Start riveting from the middle & work outwards, or from one end, that allows the plates freedom of movement. It seems obvious, but I've seen people start from both ends, leaving the center till last.
Way back when I flew bush planes the techs did many hours & thousands of rivets to repair damaged skins & floats. They had small spring loaded devices called cleeko's (sp) that were inserted into rivet holes, sometimes hundreds of them, to keep the pieces accurately in place on compound curves. The most junior guy was sent inside & held a bucking bar against the metal, just to the side of the river shank, then called "draw". The riveter on the outside hit the rivet with a couple of blows. This forced the metal pieces tightly together. The bucking bar was then placed on the end of the rivet & the call was "rivet".
BRRPPP, six blows from a pneumatic gun peened the rivet. You can do the same thing with a hammer, experiment on a few rivets to find the strength of the blow you need to set the rivet in appx six blows.
Go to any shop that maintains aircraft, small ones or jets. They will have bin fulls of high quality rivets & you should be able to pick up a few dozen for next to nothing. Show them the clew plates & the thickness of the sail to ensure the right diameter & length. IIRC the older Nacras used 1/8" (.125) diameter. I got a bucket of various sizes from the Boeing metal shop.
They do age if left on a shelf for years, you are supposed to bake them in an oven for 20 minutes before use.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Go to any sail loft and get some aluminum rivets (don't use SS - corrosion with Al) and they can tell you where to get the punch/drift. Assemble the clew plate and rivets. Put a block of wood under the clew plate and pound the rivet a few times. Light, simple, fast, and easy. That is the way they do it and you should too. Keep spares on hand like anything else.
Have fun
Dan

I should have mentioned that aviation rivet are not the only answer. Any place that build/repairs aluminum boats or fabs Al,(think sheet metal shop) should have a good supply.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Here is the link to the place where you can get all that you need...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rivets/=qo5yjs

Here is the installation tool that works well and is inexpensive:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6663a19/=qo5zsk

You can also get clew plates together with rivets from Murrays but IMO screws and nuts will work too. Don't forget to use LoctTite.
Good luck

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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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