Anyone here have tiller time on a 580? I am opening up my possibilities to the later range of 17-18 footers and really like the looks and specs of this boat.

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

I haven't sailed one, but I did check one out. It is like a newer, updated 5.8 with pork chop looking centerboards instead of daggers. The centerboards reminded me more of a Shark centerboards rather than Prindle 18-2 or 19 boards because of the way they worked. They definitely make the boat more beach friendly. They look like really nice boats!

I do. What do you want to know? It's similar to the 5.8 but pivot centerboards, updated sail plan, spin kit, etc. Nacra changed the main to a boom vs. boomless.

If I had to choose between 5.8 or 580 I would pic 5.8NA for performance/racing and pic the 580 for recreational use.

Now to throw you a curve ball. I would pick the F18 over the 580 for oh so many reasons.

--
Philip
--

I wouldn't mind having a 580 sometime.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

astglenn

Anyone here have tiller time on a 580? I am opening up my possibilities to the later range of 17-18 footers and really like the looks and specs of this boat.

Are you looking at the one that is for sale in Minneapolis? For the price it is worth it.

I would say the 580 is a great boat to get, but there are some sweet 5.8 and 6.0 out there that can be had for a great price..

That said and from talking t a few owners, the 580 had some refinements done that they seem to like over the 5.8 such as wider beam.. few inches, retractable boards which is a plus, newer rudder system old one sucked, a boomed main which IMPO is good, and a non overlapping jib which IMPO is more efficient that the honker of a jib that was used on the 5.8NA. I don't seem to remember if they ever gave the 580 a Portsmouth number..

Whatever you get, mark next August 17th or 24th on you calendar for the Tri-Point Ocean Race.... you are somewhere in California....right!

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

mummp

I do. What do you want to know? It's similar to the 5.8 but pivot centerboards, updated sail plan, spin kit, etc. Nacra changed the main to a boom vs. boomless.

If I had to choose between 5.8 or 580 I would pic 5.8NA for performance/racing and pic the 580 for recreational use.

Now to throw you a curve ball. I would pick the F18 over the 580 for oh so many reasons.

F18 is looks like a razor looking to shave course time for sure. I am looking for something with a fairly uncluttered tramp, a modern hull design, updated sail construction and the ability to haul balls without being on the edge unless really pushed. The 580 looks like it would fit the bill. My Hobie 18 is a beautiful high performance truck. It is an 82, so its really heavy. Hal explained to me that if I would sail in a frikin lake that has some other cats running around, help is generally not far off when the inevitable happens. I will sail this solo about 50% of the time. The A Cat is cool from a weight perspective, but I fear it would be a tad more edgy.

The biggest problem is that there are so many good to great designs out there. We live in spoiled times. I seriously doubt that a guy could buy a bad modern boat.

So, 580 sounds awesome. But so does a no boom having 5.whatever it is. And then there are always the Hobies...Ugh.

It sounds like you have had a good time with the 580. I have yet to read a bad comment about that specific boat. If I can locate a nice one, I will find out through the best way I know. Jump on and go for it!

Thank you for the input.



Edited by astglenn on Aug 27, 2012 - 01:24 PM.

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

JohnES

astglenn

Anyone here have tiller time on a 580? I am opening up my possibilities to the later range of 17-18 footers and really like the looks and specs of this boat.

Are you looking at the one that is for sale in Minneapolis? For the price it is worth it.

I would say the 580 is a great boat to get, but there are some sweet 5.8 and 6.0 out there that can be had for a great price..

That said and from talking t a few owners, the 580 had some refinements done that they seem to like over the 5.8 such as wider beam.. few inches, retractable boards which is a plus, newer rudder system old one sucked, a boomed main which IMPO is good, and a non overlapping jib which IMPO is more efficient that the honker of a jib that was used on the 5.8NA. I don't seem to remember if they ever gave the 580 a Portsmouth number..

Whatever you get, mark next August 17th or 24th on you calendar for the Tri-Point Ocean Race.... you are somewhere in California....right!

You bring up a great point.

I wonder if a guy could have a boat shipped in a truck? The cats must be shipped all over the world. I guess it would be a matter of getting a seller that was competent to disassemble the boat, or having a shop pull it down and pack it up. I could see this adding a couple grand to the price if one had to kneel to the mercy of whatever shop might take it on. In the 7-9K range for a boat and trailer, that is a big number by percentage and likely queers it up.

I am in Southern CA frequently. We surf Huntington Beach. I bet I can find a nice one down there somewhere. That is as simple as a 7 hour yank to get her back.

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

astglenn

mummp

I do. What do you want to know? It's similar to the 5.8 but pivot centerboards, updated sail plan, spin kit, etc. Nacra changed the main to a boom vs. boomless.

If I had to choose between 5.8 or 580 I would pic 5.8NA for performance/racing and pic the 580 for recreational use.

Now to throw you a curve ball. I would pick the F18 over the 580 for oh so many reasons.

I am looking for something with a fairly uncluttered tramp, a modern hull design, updated sail construction and the ability to haul balls without being on the edge unless really pushed. The 580 looks like it would fit the bill. My Hobie 18 is a beautiful high performance truck. It is an 82, so its really heavy....... I will sail this solo about 50% of the time. The A Cat is cool from a weight perspective, but I fear it would be a tad more edgy.
......It sounds like you have had a good time with the 580. I have yet to read a bad comment about that specific boat.

Thank you for the input.Edited by astglenn on Aug 27, 2012 - 01:24 PM.

What's your name?

Of all the criteria that you listed, the 580 really does not fit the bill. The hull is modified (boards, beam beds) from the original design from the 80's, if that is what is important to you. Still the original design was a great hull that was before its time. The typical layout of the 580 does not have a self tacking jib, which all modern sloop rigs now have. If you are sailing with a spin you absolutely want a self tacker, and even more so if you are sailing solo. The boat is still heavy, and sailing it solo in a good stiff breeze is no fun. It's not really set up for solo, and it is a powerful 19 foot beast.

Uncluttered tramp: All the current boats come with a perfectly uncluttered tramp, by design. The 580 is a bit better than the vintage old boats of yester-year in clutter as the jib blocks are mounted on the beam and they did away with the 4-way set up.

There are not a lot of 580's in circulation in the US (more so across the pond) and sourcing important parts like the pivoting dagger would be expensive and likewise, would be a deal killer for me.

For your budget, and considering your zest for a modern design, you might want to put some thought in the A-cat, F-16, or F-18. All three platforms meet your criteria and there are plenty to choose from. They all offer the "haul balls" factor. The F-18 is still heavy and probably more than a handful if you are keen on solo. The A-cat is beauty in its own art form in every way, but strictly a solo rig.

Might as well throw in the F17, a dated but still fairly modern design. They are dirt cheap and set up for solo, and you can add a jib and sail it two up.

I would again look at what you want from your boat and re-evaluate.

--
Philip
--

mummp

astglenn

mummp

I do. What do you want to know? It's similar to the 5.8 but pivot centerboards, updated sail plan, spin kit, etc. Nacra changed the main to a boom vs. boomless.

If I had to choose between 5.8 or 580 I would pic 5.8NA for performance/racing and pic the 580 for recreational use.

Now to throw you a curve ball. I would pick the F18 over the 580 for oh so many reasons.

I am looking for something with a fairly uncluttered tramp, a modern hull design, updated sail construction and the ability to haul balls without being on the edge unless really pushed. The 580 looks like it would fit the bill. My Hobie 18 is a beautiful high performance truck. It is an 82, so its really heavy....... I will sail this solo about 50% of the time. The A Cat is cool from a weight perspective, but I fear it would be a tad more edgy.
......It sounds like you have had a good time with the 580. I have yet to read a bad comment about that specific boat.

Thank you for the input.Edited by astglenn on Aug 27, 2012 - 01:24 PM.

What's your name?

Of all the criteria that you listed, the 580 really does not fit the bill. The hull is modified (boards, beam beds) from the original design from the 80's, if that is what is important to you. Still the original design was a great hull that was before its time. The typical layout of the 580 does not have a self tacking jib, which all modern sloop rigs now have. If you are sailing with a spin you absolutely want a self tacker, and even more so if you are sailing solo. The boat is still heavy, and sailing it solo in a good stiff breeze is no fun. It's not really set up for solo, and it is a powerful 19 foot beast.

Uncluttered tramp: All the current boats come with a perfectly uncluttered tramp, by design. The 580 is a bit better than the vintage old boats of yester-year in clutter as the jib blocks are mounted on the beam and they did away with the 4-way set up.

There are not a lot of 580's in circulation in the US (more so across the pond) and sourcing important parts like the pivoting dagger would be expensive and likewise, would be a deal killer for me.

For your budget, and considering your zest for a modern design, you might want to put some thought in the A-cat, F-16, or F-18. All three platforms meet your criteria and there are plenty to choose from. They all offer the "haul balls" factor. The F-18 is still heavy and probably more than a handful if you are keen on solo. The A-cat is beauty in its own art form in every way, but strictly a solo rig.

Might as well throw in the F17, a dated but still fairly modern design. They are dirt cheap and set up for solo, and you can add a jib and sail it two up.

I would again look at what you want from your boat and re-evaluate.

I really appreciate you taking the time to reach out with all this information. Let me get my priorities straight in my head and list them sensibly. If you are willing to offer this level of recommendation, I desire to ask the right questions. I shall return. BTW. My name is Glenn.



Edited by astglenn on Aug 27, 2012 - 05:40 PM.

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

OK. I am going to keep my 82 Hobie 18. It is factory new condition. Whirlwind main and jib. Just ordered the last of the blocks to fully Harkenize it. It has a Cheetah OB bracket. It is a great, fairly fast truck. When I distill the mission statement, I guess what I desire is a sports car with reasonable manners.

Order of priorities:

Construction quality and support for parts

Single hand well at its design performance envelope (running at 50% of capacity makes no sense to me)

Handling can be attention demanding in stronger conditions but not divergent.

Performance without throwing a spin, jen, or any other 3rd sail

Well sorted running rigging. Several of the boats I have seen (Older Nacra I believe) would assure my drowning and washing up on the beach looking like the victim of a bondage and discipline murder. I can't always count on a crew. Wife busy. Kids busy. I am sure this is a broken record of what you all run into.

About me:

230 Lb Hawaiian / Portogee (South Pacific Jew) Active surfer, grounded pilot, recreational boxer, wanna be sailor and full time coxman. I have serious torque on tap and a very serious dedication to learning how to properly sail a cat. There it is.

Somewhere it became obvious that one boat can't do all things perfectly. I really hope that 2 can!

Thank you

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

Hey Glenn,

So you keep the H18 for two or more and get a second boat to solo, right?

No spin, correct?

That opens you up to a lot of older boats, especially if you update the sails like you did with Chip.

As for "well sorted running rigging", you can take any of the older boats and really clean things up with modern ideas. Most of the modern boats are spin boats, but don't rule them out, they really are addictive!

--
Philip
--

Can I assume that the Hobie FX 1 would be in the "adaptable" 17 footers that will still get it on as a single crew boat?

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

astglenn

Can I assume that the Hobie FX 1 would be in the "adaptable" 17 footers that will still get it on as a single crew boat?

The Hobie FX One is designed to be a single-handed racing boat, doesn't mean it can't carry two, but it's an actual single hander. With Spin.

There aren't very many of them in the USA.

http://www.hobiecat.com/sailboats/fx-one/

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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astglenn

OK. I am going to keep my 82 Hobie 18. It is factory new condition. Whirlwind main and jib.

Good deal, the Hobie 18 can handle a very wide range of crew weight. One note is that your 1982 model is in the heaviest range of model years. 1981 to 1983 were the heaviest, 1984-1986 the lightest (but most prone to failure) after 1987 you get the best rudder system, and after 1989 they are as good and light as they get. (unfortunately Hobie didn't sell many Hobie 18's after 1989 so they are hard to find)

astglenn

Single hand well at its design performance envelope (running at 50% of capacity makes no sense to me) ...

About me: 230Lb
.....
Somewhere it became obvious that one boat can't do all things perfectly. I really hope that 2 can!

Thank you

Since I weigh more than you I can tell you that NONE of the beachcats that are designed/advertised as single handed boats will sail at their design performance with 230 lb's on board. Doesn't mean they will all sink (like a Hobie 17 will with that weight) but it will be a dog.

I single hand my Hobie 18 a lot, even in regattas and distance races. The only problem is moving it around, getting it on and off the trailer, and raising the mast. Problems indeed. Lots of times I would like to trailer the boat down to the local lake but don't want to face it all alone.

I've looked at some of the lightweight boats that are designed for two-up as single-hand alternatives for big boys.

The Bimare Javelin 18 HT would be an interesting choice since it is meant to be two-handed, but is very light (less than 300 lbs) and only has main and spin. I could sail one of those like it was a giant A-Class cat and just leave the spin for when you have two aboard.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Damon, have you tried soloing a 5.8? It's quite a ride and you've got the weight to not be totally insignificant.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

No, but mummp has plenty of solo stick time on the 5.8.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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DamonLinkous

astglenn

OK. I am going to keep my 82 Hobie 18. It is factory new condition. Whirlwind main and jib.

Good deal, the Hobie 18 can handle a very wide range of crew weight. One note is that your 1982 model is in the heaviest range of model years. 1981 to 1983 were the heaviest, 1984-1986 the lightest (but most prone to failure) after 1987 you get the best rudder system, and after 1989 they are as good and light as they get. (unfortunately Hobie didn't sell many Hobie 18's after 1989 so they are hard to find)

astglenn

Single hand well at its design performance envelope (running at 50% of capacity makes no sense to me) ...

About me: 230Lb
.....
Somewhere it became obvious that one boat can't do all things perfectly. I really hope that 2 can!

Thank you

Since I weigh more than you I can tell you that NONE of the beachcats that are designed/advertised as single handed boats will sail at their design performance with 230 lb's on board. Doesn't mean they will all sink (like a Hobie 17 will with that weight) but it will be a dog.

I single hand my Hobie 18 a lot, even in regattas and distance races. The only problem is moving it around, getting it on and off the trailer, and raising the mast. Problems indeed. Lots of times I would like to trailer the boat down to the local lake but don't want to face it all alone.

I've looked at some of the lightweight boats that are designed for two-up as single-hand alternatives for big boys.

The Bimare Javelin 18 HT would be an interesting choice since it is meant to be two-handed, but is very light (less than 300 lbs) and only has main and spin. I could sail one of those like it was a giant A-Class cat and just leave the spin for when you have two aboard.

You make a number of great points Damon. I am new to cats but not remotely new to getting a buoyant structure to travel through water. Let me put on my douche hat for a min. I had to get all these variables down to Newtonian physics so I could look at the characteristics inherent to the several particular platforms. Please excuse the departure into psychobabble. I get paid to do this, so I did a little "Gubment" work for myself. I work in DOD issues best left indefinite.

Your points tell the exact story that the data in my hydraulics and dynamics tables would suggest. A light bulb has gone on in my dimly lit head.

Wetted surface, Buoyancy, force, reaction and moment all form this fairly linear line to a Delta of operating range. I guess you could say that I am examining the "Formula" that some of the different boats follow. Each design and plan-form will operate outside of its formula range without a doubt. The tolerance of operation outside of the sweet spot is a derivative of the tolerance of the Formula itself. The hot boats do not like weight (additional wetted surface and longitudinal resistance) in a much more pronounced protest than a big truck like our Hobie 18's. Hull volume is a big part of the equation but it goes much deeper than just the buoyancy comps. It changes the force reactions (how the hulls change their plane) and a laundry list of downstream reactions. As tramp and line monkeys, we can adjust, but adjusting to compensate certain reactions only leads to an increase of another reaction that is likely worse. Your point holds water. No pun intended!

I can now clearly see why the Hobie 17, a boat that I assumed would be THE boat for me at 230, would essentially handle like a soviet wheelbarrow full of anvils at that weight. It would also likely fight back when attempting a tack and to a lesser degree a gybe. Too much wetted surface, driving a need for more push without sufficient lift, which reacts as more hull compression, which creates more resistance. The slower the hulls are moving, the more pronounced it would get. It's a lot like being married. The worse you want it, the worse you get it. When you need it really bad, you get it really bad.

From what my eagerly learning self has seen and calculated, at 230 I am soundly into a Hobie 18 or maybe Nacra 5.8 for learning and a detuned F-18 type of rig for flying. I am sure there are 17's with numbers that would support success. These two just stick out as easy examples. The A-cat platform has enough power to mask some issues I bet. A talented sailor can overcome much. I am not that as of yet by any means. I will be at some point.

So Damon. If I hear you right, sailing the H-18 solo is what I should go for. From what my calculations show, uhh, you are pretty much right!

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

Let me add:

We modified a gin pole here in the fab shop that seems to work really well for the mast step nightmare. I don't much care for that entire process. I am not afraid of it, I just know how completely sketchy that it REALLY is. So long as the mast is raised under some lateral stability, its barely OK. That entire undertaking is one component failure away from everyone knowing that something went really wrong at best and a smashed car or bystander at worst. Meh. I could be happy never stepping that mast again. We are drawing up a replacement hinge in Solid Works and will likely machine in-house out of Duplex or Titanium. I hate that stock, cast aluminum hinge plate.

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

Quote

The hot boats do not like weight (additional wetted surface and longitudinal resistance) in a much more pronounced protest than a big truck like our Hobie 18's. Hull volume is a big part of the equation but it goes much deeper than just the buoyancy comps. It changes the force reactions (how the hulls change their plane) and a laundry list of downstream reactions. As tramp and line monkeys, we can adjust, but adjusting to compensate certain reactions only leads to an increase of another reaction that is likely worse. Your point holds water. No pun intended!

I disagree with most of this, if I understand what you're trying to say anyway..

The newer designs have mostly moved the buoyancy lower and lower in the hull (from apple to pear) over time, which makes them much more weight, wave, and driver, forgiving per given buoyancy. The newer designs also do have more hull volume quite often, although the 5.8 certainly has plenty, which also makes them more weight forgiving per given hull length.

However, what I find most important for soloing a boat is how easy it is to control, and newer designs EXCEL at that. The biggest problem I've had with soloing older cats is the jib. I've got no problem handling it while on the tramp, during maneuvers, but it can be a liability in a blow when trapped out. The newer designs (which I'm assuming is what you mean when you say 'hot boats') have moved the power more to the main, and shrunk the jib, and for the most part allow you to get away with handling 1-2 lines at any given time when trapped solo -- downhaul/mainsheet when going up or kite sheet downhill.

Soloing a 5.5 or 5.8, while flying a hull, I have to be careful of puffs from behind (lifters?) as, if I'm reaching at all, they can fill and power the jib, and add a ton of heel, very quickly.

Just MHO.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

yurdle

Quote

The hot boats do not like weight (additional wetted surface and longitudinal resistance) in a much more pronounced protest than a big truck like our Hobie 18's. Hull volume is a big part of the equation but it goes much deeper than just the buoyancy comps. It changes the force reactions (how the hulls change their plane) and a laundry list of downstream reactions. As tramp and line monkeys, we can adjust, but adjusting to compensate certain reactions only leads to an increase of another reaction that is likely worse. Your point holds water. No pun intended!

I disagree with most of this, if I understand what you're trying to say anyway..

The newer designs have mostly moved the buoyancy lower and lower in the hull (from apple to pear) over time, which makes them much more weight, wave, and driver, forgiving per given buoyancy. The newer designs also do have more hull volume quite often, although the 5.8 certainly has plenty, which also makes them more weight forgiving per given hull length.

However, what I find most important for soloing a boat is how easy it is to control, and newer designs EXCEL at that. The biggest problem I've had with soloing older cats is the jib. I've got no problem handling it while on the tramp, during maneuvers, but it can be a liability in a blow when trapped out. The newer designs (which I'm assuming is what you mean when you say 'hot boats') have moved the power more to the main, and shrunk the jib, and for the most part allow you to get away with handling 1-2 lines at any given time when trapped solo -- downhaul/mainsheet when going up or kite sheet downhill.

Soloing a 5.5 or 5.8, while flying a hull, I have to be careful of puffs from behind (lifters?) as, if I'm reaching at all, they can fill and power the jib, and add a ton of heel, very quickly.

Just MHO.

I am only exploring hulls, volume and buoyancy at this point of my limited knowledge.

Moving the break even point of buoyancy resolves into several derivatives. One is a center of reaction at the rolling moment. The other is the overturning moment. Both are linked, however exclusive reactions. However that resolves into what a first class sailor like yourself feels, is beyond my skill set. Once I get more seat time, I'll likely disagree with me too. It happens often.

So you would say that the big truck H-18 is more sensitive to the "Edge" and that sensitivity comes from the additional power at the jib in a gust and that happens more when hiked out and adding additional resistance to overturning. By placing the power in the main on a modern boat, is it just the accessibility of the control of the main that makes it behave nice, "you can de-power in time" or is there something else about the behavior of the system?

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

I'm far from first class, and I don't know if the accessibility of the main or the inaccessibility of a large jib is more significant. I've got very little tiller time on an H18, so I can't really comment other than to say it's seemed to be a powerful and fast reaching boat. And a tank...except when an '86 snaps in half in the gulf and sends its crew swimming when prepping for the Dash last year.

Someone will probably disagree with me here, but if sails were engines, I'd equate the large overlapping jibs to a secondary engine, and the handkerchief jibs of modern boats more to a turbocharger.

The mains are also higher aspect (ie faster) yet easier to stall.

Again, just MHO FWIW.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

yurdle

I'm far from first class, and I don't know if the accessibility of the main or the inaccessibility of a large jib is more significant. I've got very little tiller time on an H18, so I can't really comment other than to say it's seemed to be a powerful and fast reaching boat. And a tank...except when an '86 snaps in half in the gulf and sends its crew swimming when prepping for the Dash last year.

Someone will probably disagree with me here, but if sails were engines, I'd equate the large overlapping jibs to a secondary engine, and the handkerchief jibs of modern boats more to a turbocharger.

The mains are also higher aspect (ie faster) yet easier to stall.

Again, just MHO FWIW.

It's worth plenty and I sincerely appreciate your input.

I do love my 1982 tank. Keeping the deck on and bonded to the hull is the difference that I hold at the top of the list. I think I have a basic plan now that will get another boat going, crewed by my sons. That should get immediate help available for my hassle of dumping the 18 as a solo. It will also be on like Donkey Kong between me and the numb nutses, so I'll have a built in race, be it a seriously non sanctioned, non skilled event. Hold the snickers, but I think something like a good old Hobie 16, given to the boys, will cure the immediate needs. I'll be on the hunt for an F something or other high performance boat in the mean time. The Javelin has me horny. After looking at that design, at the recco of Damon, I am so far quite impressed.

G

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82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

an A Cat.. With a fat boy.. Ouch. Haulen A** Just sayen. A fat boy on the wire is not like one underground in the coals>> Hott A** is diferent haullen A**.. H

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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness

I Need a A Cat Please
--

Excellent information, thanks for getting it out here for us.. I have many of the same considerations/questions.
I am looking at the 5.8NA, F17s and F18s. Hope to get on an F17 this weekend. There is a great bunch of sailors with F18s operating in Michigan.
It looks to me like seat of the pants time is the next important guide.
Thanks for sharing.

--
Mooched Beachcats in the past
Time to try ownership with Nacra 5.7
Port Clinton, Lake Erie Islands, Ohio
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Hey if you are looking for a 5.8 there are 2 for sail on my beach. One is listed here http://www.thebeachcats.c…iler26amp-3b-wheels.html. That 5.8 is super clean. Like I'd buy it if I didn't have the Inter-18. The beach/boat is in Wilmette, IL (just N of Chicago). There is also a Nacra F-18 (pointy bow) for sale. If you were serious, you could show up before the end of October and we could get you out on a few different boats. Bring a drysuit and a harness though. Cold nights coming and that means cold water.



Edited by nhanson on Aug 29, 2012 - 12:16 AM.

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nacra inter-18
CNBP
--

nhanson

Hey if you are looking for a 5.8 there are 2 for sail on my beach. One is listed here http://www.thebeachcats.c…iler26amp-3b-wheels.html. That 5.8 is super clean. Like I'd buy it if I didn't have the Inter-18. The beach/boat is in Wilmette, IL (just N of Chicago). There is also a Nacra F-18 (pointy bow) for sale. If you were serious, you could show up before the end of October and we could get you out on a few different boats. Bring a drysuit and a harness though. Cold nights coming and that means cold water.Edited by nhanson on Aug 29, 2012 - 12:16 AM.

Those knobs in your avatar look JUST like Marshall knobs!

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82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
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Hanson,
Thanks. I appreciate the offer and will see where I am in Oct.
I've been watching and reseaching the 5.8 and it is in contention but about 3rd on the list as I rearrange priorties. The F18 in Milwaukee looks interesting. Looking at and hoping to mooch a ride on an F17 if Izaac stays away Saturday. Trying to get to Erie, PA to look at the F17 there.
Work is getting in the way of this highly classifed research, not enough weekend.

--
Mooched Beachcats in the past
Time to try ownership with Nacra 5.7
Port Clinton, Lake Erie Islands, Ohio
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DamonLinkous

astglenn

Can I assume that the Hobie FX 1 would be in the "adaptable" 17 footers that will still get it on as a single crew boat?

The Hobie FX One is designed to be a single-handed racing boat, doesn't mean it can't carry two, but it's an actual single hander. With Spin.

There aren't very many of them in the USA.

The first spin boat I ever raced was a FX One. They are rare. I've never seen two on the same course. In fact, I haven't seen one since I delivered one to Lee in Texas back in 2008.

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Philip
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Glen, Just saw your post. I have had many of the boats you are discussing. I owned the 580, N17 sloop, and now the 570. Years ago, it all started with a H17, then a H18sx.
So, the 580 is a beautiful sailing boat with the convenience of centerboards. It is powerful, fast and rides like a lincoln town car. Slices through the waves. The 17sloop, well, I bought it to sail with two. Don't do it. Handles like crap with wind and waves! Calm and flat seas, maybe. Of coarse with one - it is fantastic! The 570, which has cosmetic and functional updates of the 5.7. Also a fantastic sailing boat. Lots of power, Very bouant and forgiving. Gives up a little power to the 580, but, you can sail it solo if need be. Easier on the beach (360 vs. 420lbs) and slightly shorter mast. No boards or boom to worry about. Wont point as high as an F18 - I don't care though. Both can handle tons of weight. If you want a hot rod recreational boat, the 570 is it. Compared to the H18, the 570 is a more modern design, and also handles more weight - tall skeg hulls. MG

Thank's Tangledsail. Great info here from someone with seat time in all of them.

May I ask if you have had any time in the earlier iteration of the 580. '82 5.8 by chance?

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

Hey Glenn, I have crewed on a 5.8 a couple times. It was newer than '82, but still several years old. It was a robust boat. Well built. Compared to my 580, it would be a handful. More race tuned and more controls. 580 was so powerful, but more recreational. Not as twitchy at the helm as the 5.8 or the 17. Very foregiving also. I don't think i would enjoy sailing solo on the 5.8 or the 580 due to the power and sheer size. 570 has been great for me. compared to the 580, it is a little smaller, lighter & manageable. But, plenty of boat in every respect. You could also consider the N500. Just a 16 foot version of my 570. Has plenty of bouyancy for two people.

astglenn

Those knobs in your avatar look JUST like Marshall knobs!

Yeah, but do they go to eleven???

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

tangledsail

Hey Glenn, I have crewed on a 5.8 a couple times. It was newer than '82, but still several years old. It was a robust boat. Well built. Compared to my 580, it would be a handful. More race tuned and more controls. 580 was so powerful, but more recreational. Not as twitchy at the helm as the 5.8 or the 17. Very foregiving also. I don't think i would enjoy sailing solo on the 5.8 or the 580 due to the power and sheer size. 570 has been great for me. compared to the 580, it is a little smaller, lighter & manageable. But, plenty of boat in every respect. You could also consider the N500. Just a 16 foot version of my 570. Has plenty of bouyancy for two people.

Thanks Tangle. This is exactly the insight that helps me. I tell ya. There are so many excellent boats out there at reasonable cost, that it almost makes it too good. I have been hovering around the idea of either really going for it and finding a carbon masted Javelin or A cat platform, or going the other direction which leads me to the Nacra 580, or the boat I have become seriously lustful about recently, the Prindle 18-2. My H-18 is making a very forgiving boat that I am learning when and where to push the edge as a single hand.

I fully admit to not knowing much about sailing in general and less about cats specifically. I am learning and having a blast. I found another H-16 (79) that we are vaccu injecting soft spots this weekend.

I am like a frikin weasel on a triple espresso here. My back yard looks like a used Hobie dealership![img][/img]

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

klozhald

astglenn

Those knobs in your avatar look JUST like Marshall knobs!

Yeah, but do they go to eleven???

Spinal Tap! That was the classic bit that will never die. So funny.

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

astglenn

Spinal Tap! That was the classic bit that will never die. So funny.

astglenn

...I have become seriously lustful about recently, the Prindle 18-2.

Arr, the Two is a lusty lass herself- Tornado shaped hulls without those pesky gunwales lets her slice through the waves like a hot cutlass thru butter!

(normal voice...) Bullet proof Prindle construction and design. We sailed her with my son and his friend the other day in 15 kts gusting to 20 and we were flying a hull with 500+ lbs of meat on the rail. We put the friend on lee side for a bit and he was trapped between the two walls of water coming up on either side of the lee hull. We could hear him screaming but couldn't quite understand the words... so we kept sailing.

I have been sailing my '87 P18-2 since I bought it new, and have single-handed it a few times. A friend in CA, Bob Martinez, regularly single hands his Two in the open ocean out past Anacapa Island. So it's a versitile cat.

The deck is a little cluttered forward with the true four-way jib block rig and a Barber Hauler, and I have kept them because they work. The relationship between the jib and main is powerful and critical on this cat, and I like being able to dial in the jib. I have marked every line on the cat so that I can tell how it is set from the trapeze. When you are out on the wire, the deck clutter doesn't matter.

I am collecting data on the Two in the Photo section:
http://thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=88542
Feel free to take a peek.
Sheet In!

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

astglenn,
This is Bob Martinez singlehanding his Two out past Anacapa Island, CA.
At this point he is about 8 miles offshore and headed west.
Looks comfortable, doesn't he?
I think this was taken during Frenchy's Rum Run, an out-and-back beam(ish) reach.
30 miles of racing with one tack (or is it a gybe?).
About halfway to Frenchy's beach the sea floor drops to 750 feet, so the whales like to cruise through the warmer water often enough that the whale watching boats from Santa Barbara come here.




Edited by klozhald on Sep 14, 2012 - 09:40 AM.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

I would buy one just to sail with you guys. You sound all kinds of fun. I have never heard a bad thing about the 18-2. It would seem that in the world of boats, where one just aint ever enough, the grass is always greener and compromise abounds, the 18-2 seems to be the boat with the widest following of loyalists that aint on Prozac. Let me temper that by saying " a boat of that class" Since I have no class, I am chasing a Javelin to see about possibly of trying that platform. Gets me down to one sail and a light mast.

Lisa said "Over her dead body" As luck would have it, she choked on a lolipop,.. tomorrow!

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

astglenn

Lisa said "Over her dead body" As luck would have it, she choked on a lolipop,.. tomorrow!

Help an old lady across the street today.
After this comment, you need all the good karma you can get!
:)

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

astglenn,
The Bimare Javelin?
Overall the boat is light, but the masts are really long.
The Javelin 16 has a nearly 30 foot mast with spreaders.
Even though its carbon, its still three stories long, and pre-loaded with halyards and blocks galore.

• length: 4.95 m
• beam: 2.30 m
• Total sail area: 25 m2
• maximum draft: 0,95 m
• minimum draft: 0,17 m
• Mast length: 9,0 m
• weight: 100 kg

One of the local guys has a Bimare 18HT.
He used to own a P 19, and says the HT is a rocket.
If you get the 16, we wanna see pictures from your helmet-mounted GoPro!



Edited by klozhald on Sep 17, 2012 - 10:12 AM.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

astglenn,
The Bimare Javelin?
Overall the boat is light, but the masts are really long.
The Javelin 16 has a nearly 30 foot mast with spreaders.
Even though its carbon, its still three stories long, and pre-loaded with halyards and blocks galore.

• length: 4.95 m
• beam: 2.30 m
• Total sail area: 25 m2
• maximum draft: 0,95 m
• minimum draft: 0,17 m
• Mast length: 9,0 m
• weight: 100 kg

One of the local guys has a Bimare 18HT.
He used to own a P 19, and says the HT is a rocket.
If you get the 16, we wanna see pictures from your helmet-mounted GoPro!Edited by klozhald on Sep 17, 2012 - 10:12 AM.

It is the 18 HT. I think it stands for "Holy Toledo" or "Horny Torpedo" something like that. Err Hi Tech! Yea thats it! I know, the mast IS long. I believe it is about 45 lb. I am also looking into the A cat platform. From what one A cat guy has said, it is about as simple as it gets in terms of rigging hassles. It gets in the water fast, it hauls boodie in 10 knt of wind and it is all great. The big hassle I am seeing is finding one that is worth having at the 6,000 -ish range. Most I have seen, and that aint many, are between 11-14K. I am likely willing to spend 11 large, I would just be in my happy place at 6-ish. The performance takes a pretty good hit at my 225lb ballast figure. If I compare the Portsmouth (whatever they represent) numbers, when the A cat hits the > 200lb crew weights, the numbers go up from a 64 to about 70 I believe. If I could work that in and just keep the H-18 for those days where everyone I know is not watching the bugs boink, or watching sports, It would be good enough.

If it is one boat, then I still believe the 18-2 to scratch the broadest patch of itch. At least that is what I think. What I know, well that is not much. I kind of subscribe to the "its all fun finding out, buy it well and sell it if it sucks" school of thought.

More than anything else, I want a single handed, single rigged, ass hauling, machine. And lunch with Jennifer Aniston would be grand as well. Who do I speak to about that?

G

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--

There is a P18-2 for sale for $2850 not far from me here in MO........

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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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turbohobo

There is a P18-2 for sale for $2850 not far from me here in MO........

I hear MO is nice in the early fall?

--
82 Hobie 18 Alter Signature Model. (The Cisco Squid) Complete refit down to the rivets in 2012.
81 H-16
Rescue California
--