I realize everybody is going to BS, but I'm curious on what kinds of speeds you have recorded.

I use a regular $100 dollar touch screen car GPS in a waterproof bag. There has a read out for Max speed.

Monday I went out with my brother and no harnesses. We hit 20.2 mph.
Wednesday I went out again, 2 of us and with just my crew on the wire, we hit 22.3 mph. Mind you this is a 1981 Hobie 18, not an SE or a Magnum. just old.

So how fast are you?

--
Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
--

Just under light speed! But since I do the speed limit on da highway (save fuel and money) I let it all hang out with the wind (since it is free for now)! I really dont know how fast.........just before pitchpole and flippin is my best guess. My speed gage is my grin.....the faster I go........the bigger the grin



Edited by BigNasty on Sep 09, 2011 - 03:07 PM.

--
1976 Prindle 16, Sailing since 1969, Retired Chief USCG, Disabled Vet, Father of 3 great daughters!
--

I would say that i can hit about 100mph with my opti
I think on a good day i can hit about 10mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions.

--
Angelo
1983 Hobie 16 Cat fever #55697
2008 laser 4.7/radial #190471
SARASOTA, FLORIDA
S.S.S
S.Y.S.P
--

Quote

I think on a good day i can hit about 10mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions.

I'm sorry

--
Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
--

There was a thread on this (GPS Speed) a few months back. I stated that GPS "max speed" could be several mph off. Others opinions differed. This question intrigued me, as the GPS manuals say very little about errors. They will all state they are accurate to "X" feet, but this is POTENTIAL accuracy, they tend to skip over what percentage of readings attain this value. If you believe they are always locked in the groove, just lay the unit down, then select "present position." Watch the numbers dance as it thinks it is here, no wait, abit over there, oops maybe I'm further south than that.
In HongKong, early July, I took my Garmin with me, & started walking down the seawall. I tried to walk a pretty constant speed. With a couple of button clicks, I can reset "max speed".
I walk about 5 k/hr(3 mph) I stopped counting after 45 resets, but in every case the GPS would show 8-9 k/hr , appx 6 mph as max speed, an error of nearly 100%.
The fault lies in how GPS calculates speed. The iteration rate is not 10 times/second. Also the GPS has a position error. It thinks you are at point "X", then a few seconds later thinks you are at point "Y", so to cover that distance in that time, you had to be going "z" speed.
The faster you are going, the more accurate it becomes. If I get on my bike, & leisurely pedal at appx 15 mph, the error seems to drop to only 1-2 mph, & in my car at hiway speed it seems to be perhaps 1 mph.
This is why all speed records are established from a sustained speed over a distance, say 100-500 meters. A radar gun is more accurate at instantaneous speed than GPS because it uses the speed of light (3x10 to the eigth power) as its basis for calculation. The error is very small.
If you can hold onto a speed for 20-30 seconds, the GPS will also be very accurate. If you sail at 15 kts, then accelerate to 20, & hold it for 10 seconds, the reading will be very accurate. However, the "max speed" shown may have only been calculated over 1 iteration, & that can be out a couple mph. Consumer units, as far as I'm aware cannot break your data down into milli second intervals that have been measured, that sort of accuracy would mean an iteration rate of 1000 X per second, & battery life would be so short the units would not sell.
Don't get me wrong, they are accurate. If you can get 20 seond legs that show 20 mph, you are doing that speed. BUT, if you can only log 18 mph on a regular basis,no matter what the wind, then one day you see you were doing 19, with a max speed of 23, it is probably not fair to brag that you Cat does 23. If you actually attained 23, for a millisecond or two, is it fair to say "my Cat will do 23".
In reality most people cannot tell the difference between 19 & 20 on the water, so the argument is academic at best.
It always reminds me of a module we did in University physics, the Science of Hi Fi. In those days,(Lp 33 1/3 RPM vinyl) turntables were advertised as being "accurate to within 1/1000 of an RPM, & amps bragged about being Class B push pull @ .0015% Total harmonic distortion (THD), in order to give you a "true sound experience". Of course this was at a premium price. In test after test we proved that human ears, working in analog, could not distinguish between several full percentage points of THD, or a full rpm error, & all amps were push/pull.
If you can occasionaly get 20mph out of a 30 yr old cat, be happy, & don't bet the boat that it will go 23. You might run into a scientist, & be looking for a new ride.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

The problem with walking is your never at a set rate of speed your constantly going fast the slow. Esspecially if your holding the GPS in your hand. and as for pin point accuaracy that's not as important when dealing with speed. Whether it knows exactly where you are or not it will still accurately depict your movement.

My proof behind this theory, Im an avid triathlete. When I ride to new places I mount the GPS on the handlebars right next to the bike computer. There is nothing more accurate than the bike computer, given I have measured the radius from the axel to the ground with the bike under load, and the GPS as far as I can tell is dead on. Even the max speeds are within 0.1 mph

--
Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
--

Kevin219

Quote

I think on a good day i can hit about 10mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions.

I'm sorry

Thats killin it in an opti...

Have faith, he will be out sailing us in a cat in just a few months or so....

I don't have my Garmin with me at the moment, but I believe you can go in and adjust the "rounding" of the measurements. Check the manual, because it has been a few years since I changed my settings. I use mine for running, and I can hold a steady 6:30/mi pace and watch the Garmin's instantaneous speed bounce around between 5:00/mi and 7:00/mi. If you adjust the frequency at which the Garmin takes readings when calculating the speed, it will help to smooth out the fluctuations in satellite signals, and give you a more constant reading. This will slow down the response time in your readings, for example if I throw in a quick surge from 6:30 to 5:45, it will take several seconds to see the pace slowly increase on the Garmin.
I have found the same accuracy on my bike as Kevin219 mentioned above. In fact I don't even bother mounting my bike computer anymore.

--
Barry Jones
1982 NACRA 5.8
Space Coast, Florida
--

Garminless... sans the GPS. I timed my H16 at 18mph. Give or take what ever you think the + or - could be. That was the average speed. I am sure we pushed well past the 20mph mark.

Used a map and stop watch and had at it.

--
The Bone
H16
Mass / NH
--

I think the gps would be better to mark two points and then use a good ole watch to check the time between these points. You may be able to mark a spot then set the watch and mark anouther spot 15 min later and times 4. HMMMM I have been thinking about this also but the info on the accuracy of the gps is interesting.

I also believe the instantaneous speed measurements on the GPS's are not really accurate, and are less accurate the slower you are going.

Quote

as for pin point accuaracy that's not as important when dealing with speed. Whether it knows exactly where you are or not it will still accurately depict your movement.

I do not agree with this suggestion. Since it is the pin point location that is used to calculate speed. If the accuracy is 5 feet and you move 20 feet between readings. The GPS could read either you went 30 feet or you went 10 feet, that would be a huge speed difference. So the faster you go, the smaller the location accuracy error impact is. This is what allows average speed to be very accurate. This is also the reason behind adjusting the sample rate of the speed calculation.

For a speed reading I think the average speed on a 5-10 minute reach would be much more accurate then the max speed your GPS reports.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Quote

Kevin219
QuoteI think on a good day i can hit about 10mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions.


I'm sorry

Thats killin it in an opti...

and a 6:30 pace ain't bad for 10 miles of so, but its still not as fun.

Quote

I have found the same accuracy on my bike as Kevin219 mentioned above. In fact I don't even bother
mounting my bike computer anymore.

I just use the bike computer as a backup in case my battery dies, while I'm on a time trial.

And i know this topic is turning into a debate more than a collection of capabilities between boats, but remember this...

Quote

I mount the GPS on the handlebars right next to the bike computer.

Quote

and the GPS as far as I can tell is dead on. Even the max speeds are within 0.1 mph

--
Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
--

My brother and I averaged over 22mph on multiple reaches one day on his SuperCat 20. Don't remember the exact numbers, was a couple years ago. With two of us on the wire.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

70mph on the way to the lake - less once i got there :)

--
85 Prindle 16
"If you aint the lead dog the view never changes"
North Carolina
--

I sail an F16 Stealth, F18HT, Boyer A cat, ARC 22, and a custom 24' cat, and use a Garmin Foretrex 201. I agree with the several comments above about the questionable nature of the max speed of these small units. I observe steady high teens in all these boats, but rarely see them over 20 for very long.


Dave

I sailed with a GPS on my 5.2 a few times last season, and found that I couldn't get any meaningful info out of instantaneous, or 'max', speed readings. However, tracking speed over time was very helpful, and I have no reason to believe it was inaccurate.

I think the best I did was 19 mph average over 1/4 mile. I averaged 19 over several shorter distances as well, but in any config -- 1 up, 2up w/ one trapped, double trapped, etc -- I never averaged 20 or more over anything more than 50 feet or so.

I'm certainly not the best sailor around, but I got to know that 5.2 pretty well, and I have trouble believing anyone could get one to go much faster (re: raw speed) with the standard sloop rig (ie no spin)...it just starts to drag too many things through the water, and sprays like crazy.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

I've got a current record of 6.22 miles in 25 minutes, about 15 mph average, on a Hobie 16, in rough conditions (reefed main, 25+ mph winds, reaching). Not sure how much more the 16 has to give, probably a bit more though.



Edited by rcnesneg on Nov 02, 2014 - 12:07 PM.

--
Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
Rear Commodore, Utah Lake Yacht Club - Mostly sail Hobie Fox (Formula-20)
--

Reading this thread I searched for my garmin foretrex 201 in my storage.
Just to see it was really set to nautical miles and it is.
With average winds in the 4 to 6 Beaufort range, my (now sold) p18-2 did
14 to 16,5 knots solo and 15 to 18 knots crewed.
Spi up, personal best 18,3 and with crew 20,3 knots.

Last Tornado ride, we did tick 18 knots, spi up. 3-4 Beaufort.

Don't want to brag, I just was wondering if there's something going
wrong in converting numbers.
That said, under ideal circumstances, there's almost no chop on
our lake.

Regards, André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

I hit 50.1 first run out at Ivanpah in Primm, Nv. yesterday morning on my twin. Opps it's a landsailor. Pete

I made the Kessel Run in 10.8 parsecs on my Hobie 18.



Edited by presto13031 on Nov 03, 2014 - 10:53 AM.

--
Jeff
Houston TX
1986 Hobie 18 Sail# 13031
--

presto13031

I made the Kessel Run in 10.8 parsecs on my Hobie 18.

OK, this just doesn't make sense, parsec is a measure of distance, so that would be like saying I just made a Taco Bell run in less than 5 miles. (which I did)

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

pbegle

I hit 50.1 first run out at Ivanpah in Primm, Nv. yesterday morning on my twin. Opps it's a landsailor. Pete

Don't brag about moving well in the desert, even rocks can do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyHcs7B27Zk

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

17 knots solo on my P19 with a 14.9 knot average over a one minute interval two months ago.

I have found that the top speed , as shown on the screen of the device, is always 1-2 greater than what the device actually calculates. I do not know why this is so, but it happens.
If you hook the GPS up to your computer & extract the data, you see this, every time.
I looked through a recent data log from the 5.0. GPS showed "max speed" as 20.5mph. It had logged 592 segments, that varied from 30 metres to several hundred metres. The highest one was 19.9mph, over 157 metres. I think that is fairly accurate, as one run remained at 19+ for nearly 6 kilometres,(I have the output on the screen set to show mph, but the device internally logs everything in metric units).
There is an earlier post regarding an H16 "pushed well past the 20 mark."
I do not believe that.
It is well known in the tuner & racing camps that there is no substitute for horsepower. In order to go faster you need more power, lots more. It is not a linear graph. With wheeled vehicle, it doesn't take that many horses to push a light car to 100 mph. It takes hundreds of HP to double that speed to 200mph.
The situation with a boat is worse, due to the density of water creating much more resistance than the rolling resistance of tires. This is the reason it is easy to go 18mph in a Cat, but breaking 20 becomes problematic. We all talk about "powerful" sail plans, but in reality they don't generate very much, limiting speeds to around 20mph in conventional Cats. My 20' Mystere could do it in rougher water than the 5.0, but I never did get it to make 22. The oft repeated phrase that Tornado's are theoretically capable of 35 kts is a pipe dream.
The move to foiling boats removes much of the drag, hence the speed gains.



Edited by Edchris177 on Nov 04, 2014 - 06:28 AM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Mischa hit 30 MPH in the 2010 Tybee 500 on a Hobie Wildcat. In the same conditions, we touched 27 MPH. These are not B.S speeds; the 60nm course was covered in 2h30m by the lead pack, so an average speed of 24 knots was maintained by the highly experienced N20 and F18 sailors at the front of the fleet.

Definitely sustained speeds over 25 kts are tough, really tough to maintain on these boats. We were out two weekends ago in 25 ktsg27kts on the Infusion Mk.2. It was cold with no chase boat in the water and only one other boat out with us, with less experience in big breeze than us. We did not push the boat hard, didn't really need to throttle back but the puffs were large and we were still minutes ahead of boat #2, so pushing harder wasn't prudent. I'd be surprised if we hit 22-23 kts on that day. Felt more like 19 kts max. We were fully depowered and full airborne with just the rudders and back 4" of the leeward transom in the water upwind in one puff over 30 kts. That was in flat water.

That's the reality-some conditions really demand throttling back (see Spindrift 2 in current Route du Rhum) on these powerful boats. Semi-Foiling and full foiling lets you push harder in some conditions and maintain higher averages.

16.4 mph on my Hobie Wave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvqwipo0qUE

Well, if I utilize the hydrodynamic, magnum devices on my Aqua Cat, she blows everything out of the lake. 35...40 knots?

Aqua Cat Thunder

aquacatthunder

hydrodynamic, magnum devices

aquacatthunder

blows everything out of the lake

Sound dangerous!

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
--

I believe Mr Aqua Cat Thunder is talking about his blow-up motor boat.
http://www.thundercatracing.com/#!tc-videos/c1xe4

Not an Aqua Cat 14 Catamaran
http://www.americansail.c…ts/aqua-cat-14-catamaran

--
Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
--

Max 17.7 mph as my crew calls out speed from my Garmin Fenix. I'm slow but having fun.

--
Mooched Beachcats in the past
Time to try ownership with Nacra 5.7
Port Clinton, Lake Erie Islands, Ohio
--

optikid

I would say that i can hit about 100mph with my opti
I think on a good day i can hit about 10mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions.

EXTREME Opti Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4tUn5x2uI

creative

optikid

I would say that i can hit about 100mph with my opti
I think on a good day i can hit about 5mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions.

EXTREME Opti Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4tUn5x2uI

a couple weeks ago hit 20 mph on my hobie 16 according to the powerboat following me

--
Angelo
1983 Hobie 16 Cat fever #55697
2008 laser 4.7/radial #190471
SARASOTA, FLORIDA
S.S.S
S.Y.S.P
--

This is my H16.

When it is blowing i can hold 1-2 minute averages of 20mph+ pretty easy. i have several downwind runs rocking a steady 23-24mph It would be REALLY tough to hold onto 25+ for any length of time.

Spiked to 26.4mph..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6bg4scCfO0

Mystere Catamarans just tested the new foiling version of their Espadon last month near Montreal. They didn't report on speed (tested in 10-15 kts of wind), but I'm sure by next summer they'll have set the bar higher for everyone.

--
Jason Kasper
2000 Mystère 5.0XL
Lake St Francis (St Lawrence River)
Lancaster, Ontario, Canada
--