• sierracat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Sep 17, 2014
  • Last visit: Sep 20, 2022
  • Posts: 82

  Posted: Jun 23, 2015 - 03:49 AM

  I'd like to add a second pair of trapeze wires to my 5.5 uni. Reason being I'll usually be sailing with someone else on the boat (it will give them something to do). And since I'm running a bigger sail (from an 18 square) it will be nice to have the option for two people trapezing in bigger winds. I also hope to add a jib some time, so I'll will need crew wires then for sure.
  
  I've heard most folks use 1/19 strand (2.4mm or 3/32"). I don't want vinyl covered wire. I don't like the idea for trapped moisture/corrosion reasons, but honestly, my current trap wires aren't covered (neither are any of the stays) and I'd just like them to match. Can anybody recommend a good mail order supplier that can make me some up?
  
  My other questions are: Should I get the second set of crew wires made exactly the same length as the skipper wires, or shorter? It seems that because they are further forward, closer to the mast, they should be slightly shorter. But maybe this is taken up in the adjustable line part. Crew trapeze placement is up near the front beam on these boats, correct? I think I read somewhere the crew's trap shock cord actually runs through the front beam. I'm also not sure if my uni-rig skipper wires are placed in the same spot as the sloop models, which might affect things. They come down to the hulls just a few inches aft of the side stays, with shock cord through grommets in the tramp. My final question is, how do I fit two extra thimbles on the shackle at the mast hound? It's already pretty full with three other thimbles (forestay and shrouds). My current trapeze wires are swaged with the shrouds. (BTW, I realize that in this pic the forestay thimble isn't in the middle of the shackle like it should be…).
  
  Thanks,
  Tom
  
  
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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• schoen.steve
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  • Posts: 91

  Posted: Jun 23, 2015 - 10:07 AM

  I just purchased a set of double wires for my Nacra I20 with adjustable handles which they cut to accommodate. For a couple of bucks I am sure they would adjust them to whatever length you want.
  
  The skipper and crew are the same length on my boat, both original and replacement.
  
  It looks like two extra thimbles will probably fit your shackle..but if not...get a slightly larger shackle. May have to take up the extra 1/8"-1/4" in your stay adjustments.
  
  http://www.murrays.com/02-8253.html
  
  --
  Steve
  Nacra Inter 20
  Okemos Michigan
  --

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• nacra55
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
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  Posted: Jun 23, 2015 - 11:46 AM

  On a 5.5 SL the wires are the same length and the crew (front) goes through the main beam. If I were you, I would measure what you have and get them custom made.
  You don't have a stock 5.5 sl or uni. You have an 18sq mast that is longer than a SL or uni and the hound may be in a different spot and the beam has been cut down to 8 or 8.5.
  
  Do you have an extra hole on the mast hound above the hole your using for the shrouds and fore-stay? If so, use it for the trap wires.
  
  If not use a bigger shackle and / or get the wires on each side of the boat made with one thimble. (two trap wires one thimble)
  
  Get the guys at Murray's marine to help you. http://www.murrays.com/
  
  --
  Ron
  Nacra F18
  Reservoir Sailing Assn.
  Brandon, Mississippi
  --

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• mrvideo
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:24 PM

  Check out SaltyDogMarine.com
  Here are trap wires
  http://www.saltydogmarine…cPath=222&sort=1a&page=2
  
  --
  G-Cat 5.7
  Sarasota
  --

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• arch
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Jan 25, 2004
  • Last visit: Apr 06, 2021
  • Posts: 267

  Posted: Jun 23, 2015 - 04:32 PM

  Sierracat;
  i know you don't want vinyl coated trap wires but i wanted to share what can happen with vinyl coated trap wires if the coating is not removed under the swage press and over the thimble. i had these fail because the swages slid down the wire and the thimble came loose.
  
  
  
  this also shows how you can have two trap wires using only 1 thimble, which works great for keeping your shackle simple and free to move. one continuous wire.
  
  i second the suggestion that you talk to 'Saltydog Marine'. he will make them any length you want.
  j
  
  --
  Aquacat 12 (sold)...'87 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'03 Nacra Inter18 (sold)
  Venture 15 (sold)....'89 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'91 Nacra 5.8NA (sold)
  '99 Nacra Inter20 (sold)
  --

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• Andinista
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 24, 2015 - 09:31 PM

  Consider to improve the shock cord arrangement. If you increase the shock cord lengh you can have a more constant tension: it will extend for example 20% instead of 80%. I use two small blocks for each shock cord, getting three times the length under the tramp (or inside the front beam)

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• Andinista
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 24, 2015 - 09:34 PM

  So that the shock cord is not too tight when using the trap and too loose when not used.

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• sierracat
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 02:39 AM

  Andinista

  Consider to improve the shock cord arrangement. If you increase the shock cord lengh you can have a more constant tension: it will extend for example 20% instead of 80%. I use two small blocks for each shock cord, getting three times the length under the tramp (or inside the front beam)

  
  
  Yep - I realized after the fact that my straight-across shock cord gets a lot of load when I'm out on the wire, let alone if I take a trip around the mast. I've heard of this method you describe, and I'll be adding blocks and extra length next time I replace the shock cord. But how can you increase the length of the crew shock cord if it is routed throughout the front beam?
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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• sierracat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 02:40 AM

  Andinista

  So that the shock cord is not too tight when using the trap and too loose when not used.

  
  
  I might add… as long as my shock cord hold up under so much tension, it sure hold my dog bone securely. When I'm hooked in, I'm hooked in!
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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• sierracat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 02:41 AM

  arch

  Sierracat;
  i know you don't want vinyl coated trap wires but i wanted to share what can happen with vinyl coated trap wires if the coating is not removed under the swage press and over the thimble. i had these fail because the swages slid down the wire and the thimble came loose.
  
  
  
  this also shows how you can have two trap wires using only 1 thimble, which works great for keeping your shackle simple and free to move. one continuous wire.
  
  i second the suggestion that you talk to 'Saltydog Marine'. he will make them any length you want.
  j

  
  
  Nasty! I would never have swaged over the vinyl myself, but this is sure a good reminder why!
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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  •  
• sierracat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  • Last visit: Sep 20, 2022
  • Posts: 82

  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 02:47 AM

  nacra55

  On a 5.5 SL the wires are the same length and the crew (front) goes through the main beam. If I were you, I would measure what you have and get them custom made.
  You don't have a stock 5.5 sl or uni. You have an 18sq mast that is longer than a SL or uni and the hound may be in a different spot and the beam has been cut down to 8 or 8.5.
  
  Do you have an extra hole on the mast hound above the hole your using for the shrouds and fore-stay? If so, use it for the trap wires.
  
  If not use a bigger shackle and / or get the wires on each side of the boat made with one thimble. (two trap wires one thimble)
  
  Get the guys at Murray's marine to help you. http://www.murrays.com/

  
  
  Awesome, thanks for that info (and Ron). I'm measured my existing wires (20' 10.5" if you are curious) and I'm getting a quote from Salty Dog Marine.
  
  I do not have an extra hole in the mast hound. There's nothing wrong with my existing trap wires, and they are swaged with the side stays, so that already saves a couple thimbles on the shackle. I figure there's no getting away from 5 thimbles on the hound, even with continuous trap lines (the pair sharing a thimble each side).
  
  
  
  Edited by sierracat on Jun 25, 2015 - 02:55 AM.
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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• arch
  
  

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  • Posts: 267

  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 06:59 AM

  sierracat,
  even if you don't have the big hole in the middle, don't you have 2 holes in the mast hound?
  
  
  

  Quote

  But how can you increase the length of the crew shock cord if it is routed throughout the front beam?

  
  on my front trapeze shock cord, the cord enters the beam on the starboard end and goes all the way across to the port end (inside the beam) where it turns back thru a small block. then it crosses back to the starboard end and loops back thru another small block and goes out the port end of the beam. effectively giving you 3 times the length of shock cord.
  j
  
  --
  Aquacat 12 (sold)...'87 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'03 Nacra Inter18 (sold)
  Venture 15 (sold)....'89 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'91 Nacra 5.8NA (sold)
  '99 Nacra Inter20 (sold)
  --

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• mrvideo
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  • Posts: 26

  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 03:33 PM

  Here is another way to attach trap wires to mast hound all using one shackle.
  
  
  
  --
  G-Cat 5.7
  Sarasota
  --

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• Andinista
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 18, 2003
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  • Posts: 880

  Posted: Jun 25, 2015 - 08:38 PM

  sierracat

  But how can you increase the length of the crew shock cord if it is routed throughout the front beam?

  
  With small blocks inside the beam. I used some sort of cheek block but with the pulley perpendicular to the base instead of parallel. (sorry, i struggled to insert a picture from the ipad..). You can also use a small block with a strapeye. Mark, drill and rivet from the outside ...

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• sierracat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2015 - 03:25 AM

  mrvideo

  Here is another way to attach trap wires to mast hound all using one shackle.
  
  

  
  
  Hey, thats pretty cool!
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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  •  
• sierracat
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  • Posts: 82

  Posted: Jun 26, 2015 - 03:26 AM

  arch

  sierracat,
  even if you don't have the big hole in the middle, don't you have 2 holes in the mast hound?
  
  
  

  Quote

  But how can you increase the length of the crew shock cord if it is routed throughout the front beam?

  
  on my front trapeze shock cord, the cord enters the beam on the starboard end and goes all the way across to the port end (inside the beam) where it turns back thru a small block. then it crosses back to the starboard end and loops back thru another small block and goes out the port end of the beam. effectively giving you 3 times the length of shock cord.
  j

  
  
  Nope, I have a single hole in my hound, currently with one shackle holding three thimbles.
  
  Thanks for the info on the shock cord setup.
  
  --
  Tom
  Nacra 5.5 Uni
  (actually a chopped down 18sq)
  (soon to be 5.5 sloop)
  Northern California
  --

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• Andinista
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2015 - 08:55 AM

  sierracat

  mrvideo

  Here is another way to attach trap wires to mast hound all using one shackle.
  
  

  
  
  Hey, thats pretty cool!

  
  
  Other options:
  - If the shackle pin isn't long enough for the setup above, put the jib thimble there. I did that on my previous boat.
  - Two additional shackles, one each side, with shroud and traps
  - If you can make clean and elegant knots, using line for the traps is an option too.
  
  If you will change or add shackles check thimble diameters

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