One of the most critical factors when using the hook & ring systems is that the boat must be pointed DIRECTLY into the wind when hooking or un-hooking the halyard. If the boat is not into the wind, then the sail can be blown off to one side or the other forcing the ring onto or away from the hook and no matter how much you rotate the mast, the ring will not do what you want it to do.
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Unable to un-hook the main sail
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Posted: Jul 14, 2014 - 10:19 AM
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Posted: Jul 14, 2014 - 11:05 AM
Agree, that is the biggest mistake I see people make when they are having trouble hooking or unhooking.
I use the offset "aussie" ring like
http://www.murrays.com/01-4216.html
The key on that ring is to make sure the big part of the circle is on the hook side of the mast. Also knot on the mast side if you use a stopper knot through the hole. I just tie to the small hole with a bowline.
Another tip on that style ring, just before you connect it to the main:
Let the ring and halyard hang freely so zero twist in halyard.
Hold the ring with the fat side on the hook side of mast.
Now rotate the ring and halyard 5 or 6 times AWAY from the hook side. This is done so the natural tendency of the ring as it is raised up the mast is to untwist/rotate towards the hook and mast.
Unhooking is just a matter of getting the main dead into the wind, raising the ring above the hook, rotate the mast 90 degrees towards the hook side, and releasing the halyard.
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Posted: Jul 14, 2014 - 05:27 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with this.
My prevailing wind is almost always close to 40* off the orientation of the dock/seadoo lift. Unless I place an anchor & hang the boat, I almost never have the wind directly on the nose.
Yesterday I had to raise the sail in 15 mph with it hanging against the port shroud,(I'm still wearing a cast, but screw it, I'm not wasting 1/2 the summer because of a damned ankle).
Once the sail portion on the tramp hung up on the tiller tie bar, & once in the main sheet, but after freeing those, it went up & hooked on the second try.
This was on a 20x10' Mystere, using the stock sail. It also took two pulls,(1 with mast right, the 2nd left) to unhook it.
I'm using the same ring that Andre posted at the beginning of the thread, with a straight shackle on the ring to attach the sail. I'm going to experiment & see if a twist shackle is better.
I'm not sure if the hook is stock, or if the PO had problems & modified it, but the hook is NOT perpendicular to the mast. It is "bent" to one side, appx 10*-15*. I'll take photo in the fall when the mast comes down.
I make sure the halyard is on the outside of the "bend" when I raise the sail, & I have the stopper knot facing the mast. The Mystere manual says to raise til "you hear a click", I haul til it's fully up, then give it a good yank, I can hear the ring hit the stop. Then I rotate the mast slightly in the direction of the hooks bend, until it lines up with wherever the wind has the sail, then release the halyard. It usually hooks on the 2nd or 3rd try.
Dumping the sail means pulling the rotator to line up the mast with the sail, hauling up hard, then rotating the mast the other way, usually takes two tries.
Initially I had trouble even raising the sail. The Mystere manual says to have the sail to starboard of the boom, while you stand on port side. I thought it shouldn't matter, but closer inspection showed the sail feed cutout in the mast is not centered. They only cut away from one side (right), so their method works best. In a stiff wind I have to tie the rotator to line the mast into the wind, & live with the sail against the shroud.
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Posted: Jul 15, 2014 - 10:29 AM
if your not directly into the wind, you are adding a lot of friction to your system. even if it hooks on the first try, and doesn't feel "all that tough"
it is more than likely wearing out your boltrope much faster than if you could be nose to wind -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2014 - 12:04 PM
That may well be true, I will experiment with this idea, by placing an anchor that I could walk the boat to, then hoist sail.
My dock is 73' to accommodate all the water crap, makes for a confined entrance, with not much room for the boat to swing at anchor. The boat would have to stay in a pretty small radius
I forget how you anchored, do you need a "Y", with each arm attached to a bridal
& the foot of the "Y" on the anchor rode?
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Posted: Jul 15, 2014 - 04:26 PM
Oui -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 11:02 AM
Andre, & Jason...did you totally solve your problem?
I am using the same ring Andre posted in his photo. It worked pretty well, until a couple of weeks ago.
My main halyard was getting a couple of fray points, so I swapped it. (the easy way is to cut the ends square, melt them a bit, then stitch them together with a butt join, not an overlap...then just pull the old halyard out, the new one will run up the mast & through any block).
Instantly I had problems, had to tip the boat 3 days in a row to get the sail down. didn't matter which way the knot faced. With boat on its side I could wade out & have my buddy work the halyard. There was no obvious reason for it NOT to work, at least with the sail floating.
I changed the knot configuration & halyard again, this time to 3/16" slippery line.
Presto, not only does the sail raise much easier, it will slide back down on its own, this should mean less wear on the bolt rope. I tried it 4 times at the dock, then 3 days sailing, & it went up & down on the first or second try every time.
I changed the knot from a pure stopper to tying it on the ring just below the small loop, this may have been what Bacho referred to above. This way gives about 1/4" more heist before the ring hits the block at mast top, & that, coupled with thinner line seems to have cured the problem with the old style ring. I am just using a regular stamped shackle.
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Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 11:05 AM
Andre, & Jason...did you totally solve your problem?
I am using the same ring Andre posted in his photo. It worked pretty well, until a couple of weeks ago.
My main halyard was getting a couple of fray points, so I replaced it, using 1/4" line. (the easy way is to cut the ends square, melt them a bit, then stitch them together with a butt join, not an overlap...then just pull the old halyard out, the new one will run up the mast & through any block).
Instantly I had problems, had to tip the boat 3 days in a row to get the sail down. didn't matter which way the knot faced. With boat on its side I could wade out & have my buddy work the halyard. There was no obvious reason for it NOT to work, at least with the sail floating.
I changed the knot configuration & halyard again, this time to 3/16" slippery line.
Presto, not only does the sail raise much easier, it will slide back down on its own, this should mean less wear on the bolt rope. I tried it 4 times at the dock, then 3 days sailing, & it went up & down on the first or second try every time.
I changed the knot from a pure stopper to tying it on the ring just below the small loop, this may have been what Bacho referred to above. This way gives about 1/4" more heist before the ring hits the block at mast top, & that, coupled with thinner line seems to have cured the problem with the old style ring. I am just using a regular stamped shackle.
Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 20, 2014 - 11:13 AM.
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Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 12:43 PM
Edchris,
Yes, my problem is 100% resolved. Since I bought the aussie ring and attached it the way Aquarius Sail showed in the link provided by Gahamby, my success rate is 100%. Never missed.
Also, I turn the mast 110 degree as per Johnes advice.
Thanks all for your help.
Edited by coolhead on Aug 20, 2014 - 01:44 PM.
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