One of myDart 18s, this one on Fla lake was "sabatoged" after I left at Thanksgiving. I just had my 5th Rt rotator cuff done on 12/13 so I won't be ble to bail etc until lateMarch. And am looking for any ideas. dart 18 has hull ports, screw out but narrow opening, thought about a sump pump. I have good rubber beach wheels. maybe a winch (inexpensive at harbor freight might be of assistance,only one hull is submerged, and a small Hobie is moored nereby and buoyant and could be tied/roped on to supply buoyancy. Yes I will probably need a new tramp, water 4 to 5 1/2 ft deep not to cold, sandy bottom, cat will be untied from 75 lb mushroom anchor, mast is secured to to frame of Dartand will be removed. Yes Dart are easily dissesembled but one hull buoyant and keeping most ofcatafloat. Will send photos when I figure out how to transmit

Can you pull it to a beach? I'd pull up on sand and use a manual bilge pump to take water out, keep going in steps, pull up on beach, pump, etc...

If you have to do on the water, then tie boat off to hobie so port is above water line and pump away. Good luck!

Type of pump I'm talking about.
http://www.globalindustri…IZpz-HwcWOnCoaAqct8P8HAQ

Once you apply buoyancy the hull will drain by gravity through the plug or a hole if that is what happened. I would use an inflatable to raise it easily. If you have inner-tubes that could be placed around the bow and rudder assembly, you could use a compressor (or compressed air) and air-line to add air and slowly bring it all above water level to where the beach wheels will be easy to use and the weight will not cause damage. Other ideas are any kind of air-bladder that can be inserted into the hull port, rubber deflated rafts, or whatever you have on hand.

Assuming the plug is pulled, you can put low air pressure (5-8 lbs) through the port lid and displace the water. I'm not familiar with these hulls, but I know we sometimes check for leaks using low pressure air.



Edited by tominpa on Dec 27, 2016 - 07:57 PM.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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Thanks for input: Dart18s no plugs only hatch/port so I already have excel ant hand pump that I literally never used on this particular cat in 3 years of boat moored on lake, Dart 18s very water tight; before this "event" still can't figure out URL to send photos to site

Out of curiosity, if the boat does not have drain plugs, how was it sabotaged/sunk? Someone drilled holes into the hull?

sm

Quote

inexpensive at harbor freight winch

they have very limited duty cycles (search this site or review the owners manual before you buy it)
having 45 seconds of "pull" and 15 minutes of cool-down may not be a very useful service to your needs)

May have solution, ordered Atwood submersable bilge pump from Defender Marine battery powered so no issue getting power to hull under water and off shore, specs claim pumps 200 gallons an hour, should be able to remove water from port hull, even though right arm in sling from rotator cuff surgery, still can't figure out how to post photos, url has me stumped

Swing have definitive evidence on damage till cat on the beach and tuned over

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still can't figure out how to post photos, url has me stumped

either post them elsewhere and use the IMAGE button below. Post the url in the 2 image tags that will appear in this text area

or

create an album on this website / then upload / then right click on image to get the image url / then paste the link between the 2 image tags (as mentioned above)

OK, I have some personal experience with raising submerged craft. Never a beachcat, decades ago it was with a deHavilland Twin Otter, on floats, worth several million dollars. The plane had ripped the bottom out of both floats on the Nahanni River, just above Virginia Falls, (twice the height of Niagara,only permanent residents biting flies & grizzly bears) Northwest Territories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/…_(Northwest_Territories)
We removed the top hatches, put plywood into the hulls to protect the inner tubes from being ripped on jagged aluminum, then inserted multiple inner tubes & inflated them with a compressor, powered by a Honda generator. We re-floated a 12,000lb aircraft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/…_Canada_DHC-6_Twin_Otter
First, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TO TIE & WINCH. You run a very high risk of destroying the structure. 1 cubic metre of water weighs 1 metric ton...you get my drift?
2nd, if a deck lid/port etc has been removed, forget those low end bilge/sump pumps. you simply cannot remove water any faster than it comes in.
Tom has the solution. Get a couple of small inner tubes, or even 2 airmatress. Obtain a small compressor, & figure out fitting for the air mattress or tubes. Wade out & insert the device into the hull. You want to insert them so that once they are inside the hull they are not rolled up, but fully extended for/aft. Maybe one forward, one aft of hatch. If the hatch is too small, use a bunch of bicycle tubes, or even push 2 dozen pool noodles into the hull.
You will only need to inflate the tubes partially, & the hull will come up off the bottom. Once it floats you can easily pull the Cat to shallow water. If you can get the hatch above water level, then you can pump the hull dry.
I still have a "float pump" for pumping the compartments of the twin otter hulls. Anything of a similar nature will work, but ONLY if the hatch is above water. I have a brass pump for sucking oil out of inboard engines, just put a piece of hose on the end that will reach to the bottom of your float. Another item in my shop is a 9 litre vacumn canister, for sucking out transmission fluid. In the USA, Harbour Freight probably has them for $30.

http://www.princessauto.c…il-extractor/A-p8469512e
If you had drain plugs, I would say, screw the hatch in tight, undo the drain plug, insert airline & pump air. That would force water back out the drain hole. Pump til bubbles come out the drain, the internal pressure will prevent water from coming in, sort of like a diving bell...but apparently you don't have drain holes?

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Other options that come to mind. Back in WWII, the US air force sank some planes in a river in China. The locals swam out & inserted a bunch of bamboo into the fuselage til it floated, very low tech, but effective.
I'm not fmiliar with the hatches on the Dart, but if they are problematic, you could get a couple of webbing straps under the hull,(using a sawing motion), then tie a coupe of inner tubes to the webbing & inflate with a compressor. Once the hull comes off the bottom it is very easy to place a truck tube under the hull & inflate. Any tire shop should have a "pig", a 5 gal canister that holds compressed air to fill tires. You can recharge it on shore via an electric compressor, then wade out & fill tubes.
I moved an elderly neighbors SeaDoo lift to his dock by tying several 5 gal plastic containers to the frame,(upside down) then blowing air into the open bung to displace the water.
You will be surprised how much a single car inner tube will float. You entire boat is only 300lb. Less mast, rudders etc, probably 200, & you still have one hull floating. It won't take much to get the other one floating to where you can hand pump it out.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Just validating what others here have stated.
A number of years ago, some degenerate released our Hobie 16's dock lift while it was unattended. We had normally left the plugs out, and of course it filled with water and settled on the bottom. This lift had straps that lifted it and hung it.
Didn't want to risk attempting to bring it up with the lift as it was REALLY heavy and we figured the straps would crack/ruin the hulls, given the weight of the water in them.
Only way to get water out of the hulls was through the drain plugs as we didn't have deck ports.
Were able to gently stuff car inner tubes under each hull (4 total, one at bow and stern of each hull) and slowly raise it up using a portable "pig". It was a slow process as we attempted to raise it equally.
Once the top of the hull was above water a bit, the drains kicked in and started the draining process.
We lucked out as once we had a substantial amount of the water out, we were able to balance the level of the boat with the lift straps.
Took a couple of hours, but had no serious damage to the hulls/cat.
Never did have to put a full amount of air in the inner tubes, so the comments about the amazing amount of lift you will get are spot on.

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Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
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Quote

only one hull is submerged

I'm in the processof refreshing a 1980 dart 20 (same as the 18 but bigger). There are bulkheads at the cross beams with weeping holes at the bottom and a larger airspace at the top. The middle and forward sections have double sections of 4" thick Styrofoam separated by a 4" air space and 6" below the deck, lots of buoyancy that also stiffens the hulls.
I'm curious to know how submerged is the hull with this much Styrofoam?
To drain the water you have to get the bow as much as 6' higher than the stern (because of the shape of the hull) in order to pump all the water out, or turn it upside down.
I've replaced the very poor quality port with a 6" beckson, and added 2 more middle and forward ( I like access)

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Dart 20
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So, I'm confused here, (constant state I'm afraid), Lol. If the boat doesn't have drain plugs, how does one completely drain water out of the hulls if any gets in there after a days sail?

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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martyr

So, I'm confused here, (constant state I'm afraid), Lol. If the boat doesn't have drain plugs, how does one completely drain water out of the hulls if any gets in there after a days sail?

https://youtu.be/kN4Y_kHyDxs

The transom is not the lowest point so the bow needs to be lifted about 6' for water to flow to the stern. The designers seem to believe if you eliminate any way for water to enter the hull, there's none to remove. Plugs leak. There's one 4" port 4" from the transom and either lifting the bow or turning the hull upside down will drain any water or allow it to be pumped out.
I've considered adding drain plugs but decided against putting any holes in the hulls. Although I did add deck plates for access

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Dart 20
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With the information from boatbore, all that needs to be done is to insert an airhose into the 4-inch transom port, turn on the air at the compressor, and air will displace the water, favoring the bow, but will eventually level the boat. Using a cylinder or pipe, approximately the diameter of the port, with the air hose inserted through to the bottom of the hull, additional water could be displaced while keeping the air in the hull. Once the hull is above water, just use the bilge pump to empty what is left.



Edited by tominpa on Dec 30, 2016 - 12:22 AM.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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This boat needs to be brought to the beach where the bow can be raised above the stern so water can be pumped out, raising the bow as the water is removed.
Tom, your 5.7 is a similar design, how do you drain your hulls?
More so, I'm interested in how this dart is floating with one hull full of water?
The weight of the mast will be pushing it down but how well is the buoyancy of the Styrofoam compensating.?
Has the hull been holed?

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Dart 20
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Draining the hulls on the 5.7 requires lifting the bow nearly chest-high, preferably on a decent incline, or using cat-trax as a fulcrum, and draining from the plugs. That is impossible without first draining most of the water in the hull. I have never had a submerged hull, but if I did, I would pull the plug and increase buoyancy to allow as much gravity draining as possible, before pulling it onto land.

This case is extra-special. We still don't know what damage or vandalism enabled it to fill with water and sink. Also, I think the foam core hull is a bit more fragile and won't like being dragged or forced. Injecting air through a hose into the hull will displace enough water to start the process you describe, especially if some flotation is secured to the bow, but as you properly note, the problem is the front bulkhead which will prevent air from reaching the bow.



Edited by tominpa on Dec 30, 2016 - 12:34 PM.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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This hull full of water should have almost neutral buoyancy . This hull weighs 90lb. Bring the boat beam to the shore If our unfortunate friend can the deck to the surface and start pumping water out with whatever bilge pump he has and work it up the beach as it emptys out should allow him to see if the hull is holed.
The bulkheads have weeping holes top and bottom, the Styrofoam doesn't seem fragile in any way.

One person standing in shallow water should be able to hold the hull at the surface while another pumps

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Dart 20
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This hull full of water should have almost neutral buoyancy . This hull weighs 90lb. Bring the boat beam to the shore If our unfortunate friend can the deck to the surface and start pumping water out with whatever bilge pump he has and work it up the beach as it emptys out should allow him to see if the hull is holed.
The bulkheads have weeping holes top and bottom, the Styrofoam doesn't seem fragile in any way.

One person standing in shallow water should be able to hold the hull at the surface while another pumps

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Dart 20
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i re-read the old forum here about adding flotation to cats... not a lot of useful info but some ideas...

add as many fun-noodles as you can jam in there?

10000000 ping pong balls? (jk - do not do that)

Wow- u mates are informative, innovative & ingeneous, right now ordering tire inner tubes that will also fit in my tubeless tires so that after this fiasco(which is the name of 1of my 2 N.Y. darts),Will try to fit tubes under around rear/aft port hull now almost entirely submerged(front of pontoon must have air pocket so still a wee bit out of water.) No ,Dart 18s do not have drain plugs like my Nacras5.7,5.2, & myHobie 16s &prindel 16s, but are really water tight & never leak! that's why I suspect cat sabatoged ,boat was moored on lake 3 years ,never took on any water and day I left I had thoroughly cleaned craft and never had to use my excellent hand pump- which I have had occasion to use up on Long Island by inserting in ports from above & between the separated sections inside hulls of n5.2 (lost hurricane Sandy )or n5.7 (lost to n'or Easter.) Can't relate how many times my friends & or myself sailed out thru Atlantic surf and forgot to screw in plugs of prindels & Hobie 16 or 18, we always got back when we realized our folly and lifted hulls and drained cats- in fact that was the normal routine before & after sailing in the surf off the beach. Pump should be here in Fla before I leave for big apple,port screw out approx 3&1/2 inches wide(only 1 aft) under water), inner tubes should lift hull enuf above water to turn on battery power pump and voila. There is styrofoam type flotation material in hulls of all my darts but it sometime 'deglues'with time and I suspect floated forward which area is partially above water, yes, compartmental section in Dart 18 similar to Nacras but aft of rear crossbar and I can't insert inner tube there and shoulder shot so hand pump out of the question

Ingenious,illuminative, inventive solutions, to my predicament, I appreciate your deliberations & suggestions, and am in the process of ordering tire inner tubes To inflate and hopefully place at the stern of the sunken port hull and raise the cat to the surface. dart 18s don't have drain plugs;they have access ports with plastic screw off tops/hatch cover. They are very water tight and rarely leak, the fully submerse able water pump should remove the water from the hull, it is battery powered so no need to find a solution to run electric out Into the lake, or to prime my trusty hand pump after shoulder surgery. Dart 18s do have compartments/sections in the hulls similar to my nacra5.2&5.7 but water flows freely thru small spaces left open for that purpose- there is a styrofoam type of flotation in each hull which is approximately 5 ft long and 18 inches high but with age becomes unglued from the hull. The tip of the hull at the bow is out of the water I surmise there is an air pocket or the flotation material is now there. I can't tell you how many time my friends and I foolishly sailed out thru the surf and left our drain plugs open after just living the hulls to drain our prindel 16s or Hobie 16s or 18s, we always made it back to the beach,but this is different almost entire hull submerged!

Hope you get it all worked out soon. I know it's got to be heartbreaking to see your boat like that, and with a shoulder out of commission makes doing anything very difficult and painful. What really sucks also is that some degenerate person did this. I have heard stories of people having boats messed with or flat out vandalized when left out on beaches or even right in a yard. Why can't people just leave other people's things alone? Good luck with the project and hope for a speedy shoulder recovery.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Thank you all for innovative,ingenios,imaginative solutions they are all much appreciated. dart 18s watertight and usually don't leak at all, this one moored on mile long lake on mushroom no water till believed sabatoge but have good hand pump which I use on Long Island for 2 Dart 18s, Nacra 5.2, nacra5.7 prindel16s,hobie16s,18in addition to rear drain plugs which Dart 18s doesn't have! waiting for submersable portable pump from defender marine, since no safe power source out into lake. may order car tire tubes to try to fit around sunken port hull- the bow is a bit above water from flotation stryrafoam? Material approx 4ft long by 12 inches that may have unglued fromhull with age, hope to post photos, am going to tie on a dozen plastic jugs for buoyancy, sit on port hull where pit is above water and enlist my wife to try to spin cat so it points to shore and will try to get rubber tire cat trax under cat.

Thank for your suggestions,happy new year

4th attempt to send reply a thank you all for ingenious ,innovative,and imaginative solutions to my delemma-Hdart18s have no drain plugs, very seaworthy and don't leak this one moored to mushroom anchor in lake 3 years and no need to use my hand pump which I do have to use on nacra5.7 &/or Dart 18 on muhrooms in GreatSouth Bay off Fire Island NY. Waiting for submersable pump that runs on batteries have- couldn't come u with safe way to run power lines out into lake cat surrounded by water! Will try tubes to squeeze around aft area of port hull and am saving gallon jugs to tie to hull for buoyancy- hope to have 1 or more sit on starboard hull as well and attempt to spin cat & point her to shore

Cat is afloat! I hand pumped it out with left arm. The submersible pump sold by Defender is a gem but was too wide to fit in 4 inch port. Thus the hand pump. Boat was definitely sabotaged since its floating. Maybe a garden hose was brought out into the lake and it was filled with water to the top. Cat looks no worse for wear. Will post if I ever figure out how to put up the pictures.

Cat is afloat! I hand pumped it out with left arm. The submersible pump sold by Defender is a gem but was too wide to fit in 4 inch port. Thus the hand pump. Boat was definitely sabotaged since its floating. Maybe a garden hose was brought out into the lake and it was filled with water to the top. Cat looks no worse for wear. Will post if I ever figure out how to put up the pictures.

Good to hear you're back on top.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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I still find it hard to believe someone went through the trouble of bringing a hose to a lake, unscrewing your lids, and spent the time to suck water through the hose strongly enough to create sustained flow, then held it in place (or secured it another way) and let it fill and sink your boat. - seems like more work and risk to the "vandal"... when someone could kick a hole, shoot or blow up your boat much easier.

I live in florida so i know how INSANE people can be around here.. so it is possible, but i still think it make more sense that you had a failure somewhere /somehow.

I would recommend you put the boat on a trailer or lift it somehow and fill it with a few 100 lbs of water and see if it leaks out somewhere... and do a compressed air bubble test

glad your afloat!