Constantly having problems to find crew for my HC Miracle 20 I got idea for riding it singlehanded: get smaller main sail. Thinking to try HC 16 main sail. Did any tried that before? Is doable or smaller sail will make cat unbalanced?

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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I think you might find a hobie 17 or 18 main easier to do this with as they are already lose footed.

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Jeff
Houston TX
1986 Hobie 18 Sail# 13031
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get jib furler and righting pole/bag... love your surfing sig line... so next step, apply to your H20, and think "Eddie would go". least that's the setup I do soloign my H18, w/squaretop, jib, spin... and in light air it's even fun to pop the spin solo...

A smaller main would indeed expand the wind range in which you could sail solo. The best option would be to have a sail made or recut with a full length luff, but shorter foot, and maybe a flatter profile. Potential problems with a mainsail with a shorter luff might be how to secure the main hlyd if your mast has hook/ring attachment at the masthead, and the possibility that the luff rope at the head might pull out of the luff groove when sheet the main is sheeted in hard. Might not be a problem with an aluminum mast, if you try it, let us know how it works out. And keep in mind that it's unlikely that you'd be able to right it solo. I sail an F18HT and an ARC solo, I just have to take 'em home when I'm overpowered.

Dave

I feel your pain. I solo a h20 sometimes. In anything under 10-15 its a great ride but ive been caught out in a building breeze before and had to drop main and sail in under jib only. Not fun at all! Even with proper crew the thing is a beast in heavy air. I am 6'4" and weigh 225 and have a righting bag from murrays. Ive been sailing for years but when I solo, even in ideal conditions i cannot relax for a second or the boat will know it and turn on me.

Whirlwind sails makes a h20 specific high wind mainsail that looks good but I havent got one. If i did I could see getting more solo sailing days. Let us know how it turns out either way

Also I wonder if you run a smaller MS would you have put more rake in the rig?

I can add peace of rope between grommet and ring on top of sail which will compensate for shorter luff.

davefarmer

A smaller main would indeed expand the wind range in which you could sail solo. The best option would be to have a sail made or recut with a full length luff, but shorter foot, and maybe a flatter profile. Potential problems with a mainsail with a shorter luff might be how to secure the main hlyd if your mast has hook/ring attachment at the masthead, and the possibility that the luff rope at the head might pull out of the luff groove when sheet the main is sheeted in hard. Might not be a problem with an aluminum mast, if you try it, let us know how it works out. And keep in mind that it's unlikely that you'd be able to right it solo. I sail an F18HT and an ARC solo, I just have to take 'em home when I'm overpowered.

Dave

Edited by motogon on Dec 30, 2012 - 03:01 PM.

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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If the head of the main is secured to the masthead with a ring latching on a hook, just adding a short piece of line will allow you to raise the main, but you'd have to tip the boat on it's side to release it. A solid bar of aluminum that attaches to the headboard securely so that it stays in the same plane as the head( instead of a short section of line) would solve that problem. For me, the bigger concern is possibility of the bolt rope pulling out of the luff groove, with the serious amount of pull that the leech of a cat mainsail with 8 or 10 to 1 mainsheet tension can apply. When the head of the sail is all the way up to the masthead a significant amount of that leech tension is taken by the ring to the hook, or the main halyard, depending on your set up. When the head of the main is a couple feet or more below the masthead, all that load is on the bolt rope in the luff channel. Aluminum masts may be strong enough to handle that load, I just wouldn't want to be the one to find out that they couldn't( bolt rope jammed, partially pulled out, so the mainsail wouldn't lower in bigger winds, the times you'd be wanting this storm sail).

Dave

I guess best I can do is downsize.

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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motogon

I guess best I can do is downsize.

several options
furl the jib in heavy air
get a hi wind mainsail
only go out with crew when there is a chance of big air
sell/trade/purchase a boat more inline with your sailing skills/enjoyment style

MN3

furl the jib in heavy air
get a hi wind mainsail

That required investment. Not sure I want to do that now. Also setting mast on 20 major PITA even with crew. Setting mast alone only doable with A-frame + winch and still PITA.

MN3

sell/trade/purchase a boat more inline with your sailing skills/enjoyment style

That seams to me better option at this point.

--
Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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Quote

setting mast on 20 major PITA even with crew. Setting mast alone only doable with A-frame + winch and still PITA.

when i started cat sailing (h16) i wouldn't sail without crew (only because of stepping the mast). I later was shown how to self step the h16 mast without problem

wen i got my h18, i purchased a jin pole so i could self step my mast (was a HUGE PITA, and time consuming, but it got me on the water without help)

i was then shown how to self step the h18 mast without the jin-pole (required trailering the cat backwards, but that is not a big deal at all)

i now step my 30' mast solo every week without help from people or machine. it is heavy, and a bear but there is a way.. but it takes practice, patience and knowledge.

you can purchase a jin-pole (or make one) for under $200 and solo step you mast if you want... but that doesnt seem to be the real issue

I enjoy solo sailing my Hobie 21SE. With it's huge footprint on the water it is very stable, so solo sailing is a pleasure. I built a crane like system to raise my mast and with someone help for 5 minutes (at the cost of a cold Bell's Two Hearted Ale) I am ready for the water.

When the wind picks up over 15mph it is good to have crew.

--
Bill 404 21SE
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MN3

i was then shown how to self step the h18 mast without the jin-pole (required trailering the cat backwards, but that is not a big deal at all)

i now step my 30' mast solo every week without help from people or machine. it is heavy, and a bear but there is a way.. but it takes practice, patience and knowledge.

Are you using boom as jin-pole?

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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motogon

Are you using boom as jin-pole?

No.
as seen here in my pic, i reversed the way a trailer the cat.
I then use the trailer yoke to hold the mast up on an angle. At this point i can get under the mast and step it the rest solo.

If i were to back the cat up even more (down the low tide line) the angle of the mast becomes even more favorable and easier to lift solo. I do this now, tide permitting.



As per the gin pole:

I purchased an EZ Mast Stepper from Murray's

http://murrays.com/archive/54.pdf

seems it has gone up in price since i purchased one in 2002 (now $209)

I wouldn't suggest using a boom, if a line snaps, or the boom falls.. you could be out of sailing until you replace it. i try not to use critical boat parts for jobs other than what they were fabricated to do... for me, that usually leads to broken gear and inhibits my time on the water



Edited by MN3 on Jan 08, 2013 - 12:03 PM.

So you are just relying on forward pitch of the mast to keep thing upright until you get the fore stay pinned?

Quote

So you are just relying on forward pitch of the mast to keep thing upright until you get the fore stay pinned?

nope
I either asked someone on the beach to pin the forestay (when i had a h18) or if no one was around (rare), after stepping, I would grab the forestay and delicately walk out the bow, and then off the bow (stepping on the trailer, then the sand) and walk out and secure it (keeping tension on it all the way). Having more pitch on the trailer/mast certainly aids in this method.

these days i tie my spin halyard to my furler ring. after the mast is up i sheet in my spin halyard and cleat the spinlock. I still hold tension on the halyard as i walk out and step off the bow/trailer ... but the 3mm robline racingsheet halyard has never failed/slipped on me.

My sailmate recently told me she's not around this summer,
curious how to take out a Tornado all alone.
Do sail my P 18-2 all year long, windforce 5 - 6 is maximum.
Above that, it's survival mode.
Have a F18 spi, it doesn't fly above 3-4 Bf solo.
All the important lines run to the back of the tramp, mainsheet,
traveller, down-haul and mast-rotator.
Thinking about a 3:1 traveller setup.
Sailing a big cat solo demands a lot of anticipation, when you
manage it, the reward is Pff..............
Have mast-up storage, though.

regards, André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4RxwvjKtM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kUJGgtI-B8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBqqouG9azY

That 3th video is incomplete, when I right my P28-2's mast solo,
I just make sure she's not on a trailer but on a solid pavement,
grass or beach and use my car's tow-hook to raise the mast.
Made a block with a soft-shackle specially for that purpose.
One line attached to the fore-stay will do the job.
Jumping on the tramp while raising the mast is so much easier when
the cat is on a flat surface.

André



Edited by catmodding on Jan 09, 2013 - 10:51 PM.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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OK. I made my mind: downgrading for something smaller, easier to rig and sail single hand.
Soooo, if anybody interested in 1994 Hobie 20 Miracle in nice condition let me know, it's officially on sale. I'm in Philly, PA.

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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smart call.

I was overpowered on friday, so i changed to a smaller jib on sat l.. made my ride much more enjoyable to not be overpowered in the gusts.

What ya thinking is a good boat to replace the 20?

This looks like a good deal on a single-handler:
http://www.thebeachcats.c…p12470-hobie-fx-one.html

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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FX1 is great, ... just bit too expensive for me.

--
Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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catmodding

All the important lines run to the back of the tramp, mainsheet,
traveller, down-haul and mast-rotator.

André,
How did you run the mast-rotator to the back?
Are you using a rotator attached to the base of the mast?
Can you get more than 90 degrees rotation for down-wind sailing?

Thanks!

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

catmodding

All the important lines run to the back of the tramp, mainsheet,
traveller, down-haul and mast-rotator.

André,
How did you run the mast-rotator to the back?
Are you using a rotator attached to the base of the mast?
Can you get more than 90 degrees rotation for down-wind sailing?

Thanks!

Under the tramp, using the old 4-way jib controllers-cleat for the mast-rotator.
Had a sail-maker make some extra holes in the tramp, for spi-setup, trapeze and
rotator. I don't use the original trough-hull trapeze-setup anymore ,leaks.leaks...
Jib is battened F18, sheeted on the original tracks.

It is still the original P 18-2 rotator above the boom,control-lines run trough a
set of blocks ( 8-1) and holes in the tramp . lots of scafe...

No, can't do 90 degrees, but why would I , using the original main ??

Regards, Andre



Edited by catmodding on Jan 18, 2013 - 12:16 AM.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

Quote

o, can't do 90 degrees, but why would I , using the original main ??

i THINK he thought you had a positive rotation control (not a limiter)

jackb

This looks like a good deal on a single-handler:
http://www.thebeachcats.c…p12470-hobie-fx-one.html

We have 2 H FX-one cats at our club, they are very sensitive to weight and tuning,
if your weight is over 180 Lbs , forget it.

In terms of tuning, there's one that can (almost) keep up with the Nacra F18's at
our club, the other one is sometimes beaten by my old-school P18-2.
Both guys are in the same weight-range and they even chanced mainsails to
figure out why there's so much difference between them.
They are going to sort out mast and rudder rake this season.

They both have trampoline issue's, tramps are both lumpy and hard to tighten.
Fun to sail though, lightweight and fast.

Regards, André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

MN3

Quote

o, can't do 90 degrees, but why would I , using the original main ??

i THINK he thought you had a positive rotation control (not a limiter)

Yep, it is stock P 18-2 rotation limiter, on the T it will be positive
rotation control.. can't wait.

gtrz, André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

MN3

catmodding

o, can't do 90 degrees, but why would I , using the original main ??

i THINK he thought you had a positive rotation control (not a limiter)

catmodding

Yep, it is stock P 18-2 rotation limiter, on the T it will be positive
rotation control.. can't wait.

Right on all counts!

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

Why would you want / need to force rotation on the T?

catmodding

MN3

Quote

o, can't do 90 degrees, but why would I , using the original main ??

i THINK he thought you had a positive rotation control (not a limiter)

Yep, it is stock P 18-2 rotation limiter, on the T it will be positive
rotation control.. can't wait.

gtrz, André

are you still considering the sale of the M20?

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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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trappinny

are you still considering the sale of the M20?

Yes.

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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Been looking for a solid "driver" of that vintage. Set on a Nacra 5.8 or the Miracle. I'm about 4.5 hours north. message me the details when you get a chance. Thanks! Patrick

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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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trappinny

Been looking for a solid "driver" of that vintage. Set on a Nacra 5.8 or the Miracle. I'm about 4.5 hours north. message me the details when you get a chance. Thanks! Patrick

PMed you.

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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Bought Wave with jib kit. I probably will be disappointed with performance after H20 but on other hand I'll be able to launch and sail it singlehandedly very easy.

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Andrew
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A lot of great surfers were ruined by family and steady job.
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